Feguson TO30

[bford]

Just recently purchased a 1950 something TO30 that is in great condition. The only issue is that the 3pt won't lift weight. It works just fine without an attachement. Suggestions??

 

[Jerry/MT]

Just recently purchased a 1950 something TO30 that is in great condition. The only issue is that the 3pt won't lift weight. It works just fine without an attachement. Suggestions??

I'm assuming that you know that the pto must be connected (lever at the left side near the runnning board) to make the pump run.

The usual cause of not lifting is a leaky lift cylinder, a leak at the standpipe that leads to the lift cylinder, a stuck open relief valve, a stuck control valve or a blown side gasket on the pump. Occasionally the control fork comes off the hydraulic control vealve so thaere is no control action. Pull the right hand side access plate off the hydraulic compartment, start the engine and make sure the pto is engaged.(UNDERNO CIRCUMSTACES PUT YOUR HAND INTO THE COMPARTMENT WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING!) Move the control lever to the full up position and observe the control fork( H shaped device hanging down from lift cover) the lower end should move forward. Now look up toward the underside of the liftcover an see if there is any leakage from the lift cylinder. Any thing more than a few drops is a leak. The using a flashlight and a mirror try to look into the right front corner of the hydraulic compartment. You shoud see a tube running vertically. Look for fluid streaming down that tube. Look at the pump sides. Is there fluid comming out of the pump side plates? Look at the back of the pump.Is there a lot of turbulence and noise. That's where the relief valve is at. It could be stucK open due to some debris.
Now shut off the engine and reach into the fluid along the H shapped control fork. Ther should be a "T" shaped metal piece attached to the control fork. If it's there pull back on it and see if the control valve opens. Then push it forward. It should move back and forth easily.

Go do these things and report back on what you found.

 

[bford]

I will do what you have suggested and report back. Thank you for the info!!

 

[beenthere]

bford
:welcome:

Also, along with the good comments by Jerry, get the I&T manual as it will be very helpful to understand the workings of the TO30.

Had one, and it was a great tractor....'cept for the left brake location and the fact the 3ph didn't have position control.

 

[Jerry/MT]

bford
:welcome:

Also, along with the good comments by Jerry, get the I&T manual as it will be very helpful to understand the workings of the TO30.

Had one, and it was a great tractor....'cept for the left brake location and the fact the 3ph didn't have position control.

You are right. A manual is a necessity.

However, I would not recommendthe IT manual for an obvious beginner. TO-20/TE-20 and TO-30 Ferguson Shop Manual is availabale for ~$20 on ebay and elsewhere. It has a lot of pictures( not the best quality because these are reprints, but still useful) and system descriptions that tell you how things are supposed to work. I'd also recommend the TO-30 owners manual and the Parts Manual. Lots of useful info and how to. The IT manual is useful to someone who knows their way around tractors and their maintenance and repair, in my opinion.

 

[bford]

Jerry, I believe that I have found the culprit. With the PTO shaft cover removed, I am leaking fluid from the PTO shaft. There are NO other visible leaks on the tractor whatsoever. The transmission fluid is not even registering on the dipstick.

The research that I have done indicates that PTO oil seal is bad and should be replaced and that this fix should take care of the 3pt operation. Do you concur with this assessment?

Thank you.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Jerry, I believe that I have found the culprit. With the PTO shaft cover removed, I am leaking fluid from the PTO shaft. There are NO other visible leaks on the tractor whatsoever. The transmission fluid is not even registering on the dipstick.

The research that I have done indicates that PTO oil seal is bad and should be replaced and that this fix should take care of the 3pt operation. Do you concur with this assessment?

Thank you.

Unfortunately, that wil lnot fix a failure to lift unless it has leaked most of the fluid out of the hydraulic compartment (6 gallons).

 

[bford]

Maybe I should rephrase that..............it is not just a leak, but a steady stream coming out of the rear end around the PTO shaft. The guy that I bought the tractor from claimed that he filled it too full. My assumption is that the fluid level is WAY low, not even registering on the dipstick.

I have read several posts about how to park the tractor with the front lower than the rear to preserve as much fluid as possible and pull the PTO to replace the seals. I did what you had suggested in an earlier post and did not see any leaks, turbulence in the pump, etc. My thought was to replace the seal and bearings, fill to the correct level and give it a shot.

Yes, I am a newb to the tractor world, but consider myself fairly mechanically inclined and I feel confident that I can tackle this issue. Thoughts??

 

[beenthere]

Can you post a pic of the schematic and point out where that leak is that you mention?

For the 3 pt to work, the fluids need to show on the dipstick.
I think bringing the fluid level up would be my first attempt at a fix.

 

[bford]

That is kind of what I thought about the fluid levels....................there is a steady flow of fluid around the pto shaft. It is NOT leaking from behind the pto housing. That tells me that the seal is bad. Once I get it apart, my plan was to replace the seal, gasket, and bearings................

 

[bford]

Note attached image...............not my tractor but this should give you the general idea..........

 

[beenthere]

That is kind of what I thought about the fluid levels....................there is a steady flow of fluid around the pto shaft. It is NOT leaking from behind the pto housing. That tells me that the seal is bad. Once I get it apart, my plan was to replace the seal, gasket, and bearings................

I think I finally caught up....thanks for the pic of the "leak".

I was thrown off when you announced you found the culprit. The OP indicated a problem of the 3 ph arms not lifting. I would not think a leak around the PTO output shaft would cause the problem of "not lifting". However it may be the reason the fluid level is too low.

But now I'm thinking you feel you need to fix the seal at the PTO output shaft so the fluid can be brought up to the correct level, and then maybe the 3 ph will function right. Right?

 

[bford]

Beenthere, that is correct. Everything that I have read/researched tells me that if the fluid level is not at the correct height, the pump cannot engage, thus the 3pt not working. There are absolutely no other leaks that I can see both internally and external. When I took off the PTO cover, I had a steady flow of fluid and I am sure that the level has to be REALLY low or even empty. Thoughts?

 

[beenthere]

Thoughts?
What I would do would be fill 'er up with oil, and check out the 3 ph. If it works, then just one thing to fix...that is the PTO seal. (yes, will have to drain the oil out )

If it doesn't work, then decide what is not working. May then have to pull and service the pump, or the rockshaft piston, and can replace the PTO seal at the same time.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Maybe I should rephrase that..............it is not just a leak, but a steady stream coming out of the rear end around the PTO shaft. The guy that I bought the tractor from claimed that he filled it too full. My assumption is that the fluid level is WAY low, not even registering on the dipstick.

I have read several posts about how to park the tractor with the front lower than the rear to preserve as much fluid as possible and pull the PTO to replace the seals. I did what you had suggested in an earlier post and did not see any leaks, turbulence in the pump, etc. My thought was to replace the seal and bearings, fill to the correct level and give it a shot.

Yes, I am a newb to the tractor world, but consider myself fairly mechanically inclined and I feel confident that I can tackle this issue. Thoughts??

So then the lift doesn't work because of a lack of fluid resulting from a pto shaft seal leak. Makes sense but you could have found that out by checking the fluid level first.
None the less, here's what I would recommend. With an empty sump you don't have to worry about parking the nose of the tractor in a ditch.What is the condition of the hydraulic sump? You had the side plate off and apparently there was little to no fluid in the hydraulic compartment. Is there sludge and crud on the bottom of the sump? If so, drain the remainder of the fluid from the system by opening all three drain ports. (I don't know whether you realize that not only was your pump starved for fluid, so was the transmission and the rear axle since the all share acommon sump.) It'll take some time to drain everything out even though the sump appears empty.

Pull the pto shaft assembly by removing the four bolts that hold it in place and then pull the shaft straight out. It should come out easy unless it's been damaged and is twisted.(I hope that it is not damaged because the degree od difficulty increases dramatically.) Between the right side access plate and the pto shaft hole, you can get good access to to clean the sump. put a big pan underneath to catch the drainage and the using a garden sprayer, spray diesel fuel in the sump throught the side hole and the back holeand let that soften the sludge. Decant the diesel off the sludge /diesel mix and respray it in the sump again and keep repeating untill you can get the sludge out. Use a scraper or paper towels to get the remants out and then let the diesel drain out over night. Mop it one final time with paper towels.

Does your tractor have a 1-1/8" OEM pto shaft or a 1-3/8" pto shaft? If it has the smaller shaft and you want to go to the bigger shaft, now's the time to do it. For a~$120 +/-, you can get a a complete 1-3/8" shaft assembly to just place right back into your machine. It has the bearing retainer the bearing, the seals etc. if you want to keep the original shaft or if it has the 1-3/8" shaft all ready then you'll need to get the seal replaced and you might consider replacing the bearing also.
When you're done, you'll need 6 gallons of fluid to refill the transmisson/rear axle/hydraulics.

By the way, invest in a Ferguson Shop Manual (~$20) because it will tell you how your tractor is supposed to work and will enable you to work on your tractor easily. I'd also recommend you get a TO-30 Owners Manual so you can learn about the correct operating methods for your machine. You can find them on ebay and you can also google them up elsewhere.

 

[bford]

Jerry, beenthere, thanks for the great info! As you might have guessed, I am very new to my own tractor maintenance. I grew up with a Case VAC but Dad did all of the maintenance for obvious reasons. The tractor is in GREAT condition and for $2000 (sale included a Howse brushhog, King Kutter box blade, and a single bottom plow), I could not turn it down. Did not even think to look at the PTO seal. Learning as I go.

Thanks again and I will let you know how everything turns out.

Regards,

 

[bford]

A couple more questions:

- Does the PTO need to be engaged before pulling the shaft?
- Can the seal be replaced without pulling the shaft?

Thanks

 

[beenthere]

You may give it a shot, and remove the four bolts shown holding the bearing housing. Then see if the housing will slide off the shaft (look for a snap ring that keeps the shaft in place. That may allow you to change out the seal and the gasket.
I would expect the easiest might be to just remove the shaft.
Remove and replace the four bolts evenly to avoid stress on the ears of the casting.

I'd recommend following Jerry's good advice, and be sure the sump is clean.

 

[Soundguy]

the hydro pump picks up oil from the lowest part of the sump. if you still have a leak at the pto.. the pump intke is submerged in oil.

i'd look to see if the control fork is moving the control valve on the pump body..



soundguy

Maybe I should rephrase that..............it is not just a leak, but a steady stream coming out of the rear end around the PTO shaft. The guy that I bought the tractor from claimed that he filled it too full. My assumption is that the fluid level is WAY low, not even registering on the dipstick.

I have read several posts about how to park the tractor with the front lower than the rear to preserve as much fluid as possible and pull the PTO to replace the seals. I did what you had suggested in an earlier post and did not see any leaks, turbulence in the pump, etc. My thought was to replace the seal and bearings, fill to the correct level and give it a shot.

Yes, I am a newb to the tractor world, but consider myself fairly mechanically inclined and I feel confident that I can tackle this issue. Thoughts??

 

[Soundguy]

the pto shaft seal will change out just like an N shaft seal.. need to pull shaft assy, remove retainer clip drop bearing carrier off, drive out seal.. drive in new seal ( 1 5/8 socket works great ).. slip bearing carrier back on shaf tif the bearing is good and wear ring on the pto shaft is good.. reinstall clip.. reinstall shaft assy with new gasket..

soundguy