Fence Lines

[Rebeldad1]

if the property line isnt a surveyed line do it before the fence goes up. will save a lot of headaches in the future. offer to split the cost. maybe offer to lend a hand when he puts the new fence up.

 

[DieselBound]

I'd recommend determining what kind of fence before offering to pay half. Fencing CAN become very expensive. But like I said, stop the bleeding FIRST (temp fix to keep cattle off property), then look to the longer-term solutions.

And don't forget to come to a concrete agreement about maintaining whatever fence you end up with. I have fencing that doesn't abut neighbors' properties, which means I maintain TWO sides (the phrase "double your fun" does NOT apply!).

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't believe one land owner can force another to pay for something that one wants, and the other doesn't want. You do not have to have a fence if you don't want one, so it's on him to pay for it.

I only have one neighbor to deal with. The other neighbor is across the creek, and the middle of the creek is the boundary. He decided to fence in some of his land, and he hired a guy to clear the fence line, then a crew to install 5 strands of barbwire. He went right to the property line and left my trees alone on my side, but didn't fence in two other sides of our mutual boundary. My place is shaped kind of like Home Plate in baseball. He cleared just enough to get the fence in and drive down one side of the fence.

He should have cleared more land because the pine trees are constantly dropping branches on his fence and destroying it. He spent a lot of money, but then decided that he didn't want to deal with cattle, so it's just something that he fixes all the time.

I'm in the process of fencing in all of my place. I want the fence to keep coyotes and hogs out. I realize this is impossible, but I will still try very hard to make it as difficult as possible for them to get through. I have his permission to clear the trees on his side of the line far enough away to never be an issue for the fence. He gets a free road, I get a fence that will not have trees falling on it. I set a corner post at each corner before clearing the land and eventually, I'll run a wire from corner post to corner post to know where my fence will go. I'm paying for all of my fence because I want to do it my way, and not deal with what he wants. My fence will be better then his and I will build it right next to his 5 strands of barbwire, which is useless at keeping hogs and coyotes out.

Having his permission to take out trees on his land is priceless to me. I wish he had taken out the trees on my side when he put up his fence, but at the time, I never thought to say anything.

With your neighbor, if he clears your trees so they do not damage his fence, then somebody is going to have to mow that area at least twice a year, or it will grow back thicker and nastier then before it was cleared.

Bulldozers are probably the very worse machine for clearing land, or anything. The mess they create is the hardest to clean up. An excavator is the best if you want the roots removed and clean dirt left. Grinding it up is the fastest and easiest, but it they do not like metal posts or wire. What he does on your side of the fence needs to be 100% in your best interest. It is real easy to create a nightmare of a mess with a dozer. And even if an excavator is used, there will be massive holes in the ground where the root balls where. You want them filled and compacted before the fence is built!!!!! If they are not compacted, they will turn into quicksand after it rains a few times. You never want to drive over a soft filled hole after it has gotten soft from rain.

Be sure to know 100% where your corners are. Once the land starts getting cleared, everything will look different and you will struggle to know what is where. This is why I set my corner posts. They are in concrete, they are wrapped with surveyors tape, and they are very obvious. I'm doing all the work, so it's on me to make sure I don't damage my corner posts. Whoever he hires needs to understand that the corner posts are sacred and to NEVER be damaged.

 

[DieselBound]

Good point by Eddy about taking out trees. I kept as many trees as possible, so I know about what a pain they can be; but, I have way too many trees that would have had to have been removed and it's a LOT of work to completely, and properly, take out a tree (Maples, such as I have, are messy as heck, and then there are the stumps, though not as difficult as with some other types, it's still stump work).

I have trunks breaking and falling on my fencing. I just straighten the fence back out. Fixed knot woven wire is pretty good fencing (can space line posts 20' apart- and that's what I did). Posts aren't going anywhere (3 1/2' to 4' deep and hand packed in layer of different material).

As has been noted, be clear about how any fence is to be maintained.

 

[two_bit_score]

It's only rustling if you keep the money from the sale.

It’s still theft even if you donate the money to the owner.

 

[Torvy]

I don't believe one land owner can force another to pay for something that one wants, and the other doesn't want. You do not have to have a fence if you don't want one, so it's on him to pay for it.

I believe you are correct. I think the perception may come from people who live in the city. Sometimes an HOA will require a particular fence or wall and the neighbors have to split the cost for installation or repair. Other times, it is just a negotiation, especially with a wood fence. If you put it on the property line, you have to depend on the neighbor to keep up with maintenance on that side. Since both benefit, both typically pay. In the OP's case, this would 100% depend on county rules in Texas. In my case, I would have to put the fence to keep strays out. I believe in his case it may be the other way around.

 

[yanmars]

States vary considerably in fence requirements for cost share etc. Certainly best to check beforehand.

 

[GLyford]

I realized very quickly that trying to coral 20 cows while I'm on foot, just isn't going to work.

It can, as long as you keep in mind the super secret chasing livestock technique:

Walk toward them while rattling grain in a bucket.

Whatever type of bucket they are used to, metal, rubber, etc. This is also why you get them used to be fed grain from a bucket at odd intervals from a young age...

Landlord ages ago had a weed short out his hot wire and his few cows were out. Came by to collect us as a free source of labor and told us "just find them, I'll get them back." We did, and he did. Then we walked the fenceline and got any weeds off the wire.

I have it used when I watched a friend's goats for a weekend while they were away. Sure enough, they broke a fence board loose and were out. One bucket and a handful of chicken pellets and they were back inside, and a handful of screws later the board was back too.

When I built my chicken pen I put a hot wire around it low to keep out the local 'yotes, foxes, coons and strays. I made sure to get one rated to burn weeds. Sometimes you can learn more than one lesson...

 

[dodge man]

In Illinois it used to be each owner had to pay for half the cost of the fence. If you stood and looked at the boundary line from your side you paid for the right half. I was told by a lawyer this was no longer the case, the person who wanted the fence had to pay.

This varies by state and the op would be smart to get the surveyor back to mark the line.

 

[lman]

Indiana still has the fence law pertaining to a landowner maintaining the right half of a partition fence.

 

[MHarryE]

Not a Texan but as a member of our township board (in MN), we needed to referee a dispute with a farmer's cattle getting onto his neighbor's property. Ended up that the farmer bought the posts and wire and several of us volunteered to run the fence along the existing line (not the best because 100+ year old fence lines may be far off line). When we got to the forested portion, we found the other landowner had it logged several years earlier and the loggers had felled trees over the ancient fence line. This is where tracks showed cattle had been crossing the most. In our county it is the cattle owners responsibility to pay for and maintain fences unless the adjoining property owner does something to damage the fence. In this case it was the responsibility of the logger who felled trees over the fence to make, or pay for, the repairs even on a woven wire fence over 100 years old.

 

[Str8shot]

In Texas, the owner of livestock in closed range areas is responsible for containing said livestock. The owner is fully responsible for keeping the enclosure properly maintained to prevent livestock from trespassing onto other properties and public roadways and is responsible for any damages livestock escaping might cause. If you are on good terms with your neighbor, I'd suggest inquiring if he carries a rider on his home owner's insurance policy for a just in case situation. A $1,000,000 is easily obtained and inexpensive. It can also be deducted at tax time as a part of business expense. BTW, I live in South Central Texas for what it's worth.

 

[jacspath]

We used to have this problem a lot. Ours would get out on the road. But the neighbors would get into our hay fields. We helped them with fence repair, but they were not very interested in doing a good job as long as we were on the case.
It all got solved when my brother married their daughter. Do not ask me about the pre-nuptual doc, but it seemed to work.

 

[LouNY]

Around here back when all the neighbors had cows the line fences were a shared affair, usually you maintained half and the neighbor maintained half.
Now that many do not have cows and the farm has switched to beefers which take a better fence then dairy cows did, all the main fences are 5 strand high tensile with usually 2 some times 3 strands hot. Going along the property lines we leave the old broken down fence and move in a few feet for the new fence we also use many trees for posts. The hi tensile wire is quite strong even when tree limbs fall on it often recovering itself when the limbs are cut off and easy to repair if broken. Many of the dividing fences are two strand poly wire as it is quite to put up and take down and move.

 

[RancherGuy]

My property is timber thus I don't need a fence and only have it on 1 of the 4 sides. My neighbor's is pasture. My neighbor just sold his property and the new owner is moving cattle onto it. ... Anyone, especially in Texas, know what is required?

I'm in SE Texas. I have cattle and have 2 neighbors have cattle. In 25 years, this is what I have experienced and learned:

If the fence is within property lines, the owner has the right to do anything he wants, and has no right to ask for cost sharing. If it is on the line, check your laws. Where the benefit is one sided, it would be unreasonable to split the cost, unless law says otherwise. Instead, if you want to be a good neighbor, a limited amount can be offered, but I suggest giving input of what you want or do not want. Put that as well as maintenance in writing for the memory and good of all.

I have tried electric wire thinking it would save me time. Over and over (and over), the fence was disabled - by weeds, falling tree pieces, deer, cattle pushing each other. Never again - PITA.

I have tried to maintain barbed wire, sometimes to the point of adding extra wires to keep heads from poking through - as in 9 wires in some areas. I dislike barbed because of the heads-sticking-through problem, which puts pressure on the fenceline when the neighbor's cow eats my grass. Makes me stop killing weeds on my side. Solution is field/hog type fencing, which also permits posts to be up to 20 feet apart. I like 15 feet. Never leaning because never pushed. But it needs a 4 point barb wire on the bottom and top to keep heads and necks from tunneling or pressing down.

Neighbor #1, the largest, has cattle that keep getting into my pasture, especially if their grass situation is poor. Todate, I have returned well over 30 animals - I trap them then call him to come get them, but have been known to take them to his place just to get them out of here. Problem is old barbed wire fencing that is always in need of maintenance. A down tree or situation where they can (and will) jump over are most common. Legally I can charge him a trapping fee, say $100/head. I should do this, for this guy will never do anything if I complain that his cows are in my pasture. He seems to depend on me to help him out, and never does anything with the fences we share.

Neighbor #2, has a grazing lease and his motto is never do anything unless forced to. All of our common fence was brand new 5 wire 4 years ago, paid by the landowner, and is in sorry shape with lots of sloppy unprofessional fixes. When the fence was replaced, the landowner wanted things done his way, so he paid it all; didn't even tell me beforehand. Hired a dozer which took out all of the fencing and associated trees plus 30 feet of thicket on his side. My side was clean. I asked him to leave a tree here and there, but ignored me. I have learned that if you don't want trees to take down fences, make sure nothing is close by, so I ended up liking the clean fenceline. The barbed wire is a problem. 6 wire would be better, but the best is field/hog wire. The fence is now leaning my way because I have no cattle in my side along that fence. His bull came through once to smell my passing cows by stepping through that fence. He made the wires look like rubber bands.

 

[VoyagernOK]

I've hassled with fencing rights and obligations when farming/ranching in TX some years back. (on both sides and once when called to sit on a jury over a long-standing fence dispute)

A rancher in TX is REQUIRED to keep his cattle confined. On farmland where you graze winter wheat, you will often install and remove electric fence each season. The adjacent landowner has no obligation to share in the fencing, either temporary or permanent.

If I had wooded land and the livestock owner wants to bulldoze trees to build a fence, we would have it surveyed and then he would only be allowed to bulldoze trees on HIS SIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE. There is no reason you should lose trees for him to build a fence. Further, he's going to need that open width along the fence on his side in order to drive along to check and maintain the fence. I would see that the dozer operator ran the edge of his blade right down the property line.

It is so much better to have fences installed properly and on the exact line to begin with than to deal with the hassle of mislocated fences later. BELIEVE ME!

 

[tradosaurus]

I'm in SE Texas. I have cattle and have 2 neighbors have cattle. In 25 years, this is what I have experienced and learned:

If the fence is within property lines, the owner has the right to do anything he wants, and has no right to ask for cost sharing. If it is on the line, check your laws. Where the benefit is one sided, it would be unreasonable to split the cost, unless law says otherwise. Instead, if you want to be a good neighbor, a limited amount can be offered, but I suggest giving input of what you want or do not want. Put that as well as maintenance in writing for the memory and good of all.

I have tried electric wire thinking it would save me time. Over and over (and over), the fence was disabled - by weeds, falling tree pieces, deer, cattle pushing each other. Never again - PITA.

I have tried to maintain barbed wire, sometimes to the point of adding extra wires to keep heads from poking through - as in 9 wires in some areas. I dislike barbed because of the heads-sticking-through problem, which puts pressure on the fenceline when the neighbor's cow eats my grass. Makes me stop killing weeds on my side. Solution is field/hog type fencing, which also permits posts to be up to 20 feet apart. I like 15 feet. Never leaning because never pushed. But it needs a 4 point barb wire on the bottom and top to keep heads and necks from tunneling or pressing down.

Neighbor #1, the largest, has cattle that keep getting into my pasture, especially if their grass situation is poor. Todate, I have returned well over 30 animals - I trap them then call him to come get them, but have been known to take them to his place just to get them out of here. Problem is old barbed wire fencing that is always in need of maintenance. A down tree or situation where they can (and will) jump over are most common. Legally I can charge him a trapping fee, say $100/head. I should do this, for this guy will never do anything if I complain that his cows are in my pasture. He seems to depend on me to help him out, and never does anything with the fences we share.

Neighbor #2, has a grazing lease and his motto is never do anything unless forced to. All of our common fence was brand new 5 wire 4 years ago, paid by the landowner, and is in sorry shape with lots of sloppy unprofessional fixes. When the fence was replaced, the landowner wanted things done his way, so he paid it all; didn't even tell me beforehand. Hired a dozer which took out all of the fencing and associated trees plus 30 feet of thicket on his side. My side was clean. I asked him to leave a tree here and there, but ignored me. I have learned that if you don't want trees to take down fences, make sure nothing is close by, so I ended up liking the clean fenceline. The barbed wire is a problem. 6 wire would be better, but the best is field/hog wire. The fence is now leaning my way because I have no cattle in my side along that fence. His bull came through once to smell my passing cows by stepping through that fence. He made the wires look like rubber bands.

Best fence for cattle

Are you referring to the High-Tensile Fixed-Knot Wire?