Fence Lines

[Railroadman1]

Be careful trying to put them up some people think if your handling the cattle you have interest in them you don't want that reasonability the fence cost should be his cost to bare & any damage they cause fences do make good Nabors

 

[Torvy]

Traditionally, nationwide, the person with the cattle is responsible for the fence. Unless you run cattle you are under no obligation to pay for it AT ALL. The fence is his responsibility. If there is disagreement about that, only then do you need to go look up Texas laws.

This is demonstrably not right. Texas is traditionally an open range state. It is a local or county exception to require cows to be contained. My county did not make an exception. If I don't want cows wandering onto my property, it is my responsibility to build a fence. This all goes back to the late 1800s.

 

[3Ts]

A great excuse to buy a four wheeler (or a horse)!!!

Yep! It's on the list of things to get. Haven't done it yet because of budget. Then COVID happened and the dealer doesn't have any to sell. Horse is high maintenance, I'm looking for an electric UTV. Distances are expected to be under 5 miles per day (maybe). Speeds will be less than tractor transport speeds.

As to who pays for the fence, this is a closed range county so he has to pay for all of it. I'm inclined to allow him to clear some on my side to make it easier to put up the fence and I will get something I want (fence line access for bird nest boxes without having to pay for it.) I'm inclined to help with the cost, BUT then I'll probably have to issue a 1099 if he's not registered as a corporation in Texas. Many things to consider and have a little time before decisions have to be made.

 

[beowulf]

The posts about keeping trees away from the fences is spot on. When I have found fence issues it seems that is always the reason (except when the neighbor's bulls tore out a section).

I let a guy graze his cattle on our 90 for a very modest fee. It is a win-win. He gets almost free grazing and water, and I get two things: 1) the grass is kept down for fire prevention reasons, and 2) He has to maintain the entire perimeter fence (not so easy in terms of access, and very steep in spots). His cows got out once and it was a big headache, and stressful, as we abut a highway, and it also pissed off a neighbor. The lease states he has to regularly inspect and maintain the fence but he has not really done that. One person he sent to inspect the fence drove around on an ATV for under 15 minutes and an ATV can't get to most of the fence line - I told him that wouldn't do - to do it right would take 2-4 hours and may mean carrying a chain saw and supplies to repair lines. He is a really nice guy, but I have told him that maintaining that fence is critical and if his cattle get out again we will terminate the lease immediately.

 

[Torvy]

Tangential question, are particular types of trees more or less problematic for harming fences?

 

[two_bit_score]

Pines drop limbs a lot. Get some ice/ sleet build up on those limbs and you will have fence damage if your fences run through a pine forest.

 

[cqaigy2]

I've had fir trees fall on my fence.

 

[DieselBound]

It can, as long as you keep in mind the super secret chasing livestock technique:

Walk toward them while rattling grain in a bucket.

Whatever type of bucket they are used to, metal, rubber, etc. This is also why you get them used to be fed grain from a bucket at odd intervals from a young age...

Landlord ages ago had a weed short out his hot wire and his few cows were out. Came by to collect us as a free source of labor and told us "just find them, I'll get them back." We did, and he did. Then we walked the fenceline and got any weeds off the wire.

I have it used when I watched a friend's goats for a weekend while they were away. Sure enough, they broke a fence board loose and were out. One bucket and a handful of chicken pellets and they were back inside, and a handful of screws later the board was back too.

When I built my chicken pen I put a hot wire around it low to keep out the local 'yotes, foxes, coons and strays. I made sure to get one rated to burn weeds. Sometimes you can learn more than one lesson...

Good info!

I'd been meaning to comment on this. I'm a bit tardy...

Regarding hot wires, they just plain work! I have tattle-tales on my single top hot wire. If I'm not seeing them blink I know I've got a problem somewhere: deer will mess up the wire or a part of a tree will crash down on the fencing and disturb the wire. Raccoons were ravaging our chickens and as soon as we stung up a top hot wire the losses stopped instantly: [fixed knot] woven wire fence acts as ground; crawling things will be in contact with the fence/ground and then hit the wire and light up like a Christmas tree!

Regarding moving cattle/cows, I'd read of a lot of big time folks (grass fed folks) who were able to move cattle/cows on foot. Their key was to establish trust in the herd's leader. When needing to move you just work with the leader and then everyone else follows. One guy who grew up beating on cattle to get them to move ended up doing this passive thing and recounted how he had an emergency once that required moving like over 1,000 head of cattle and was able to do so, ON FOOT!

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Some of the Texas fence ruling decided..... See below.
I'm still at it with my neighbor, I got his attention when I texted a photo of his Angus bull in my field with this would be the perfect spot to drop him (legal in Idaho, just have to leave it lay). Since then he has been a little more attentive to his animals. Last week though I had his whole herd over, the problem was they were hungry and the grass is most definitely greener on my side (overgrazed by having 300 cows plus calves on it this summer). At this point I tried a different tact, I offered to go over with my big tractor and fork his 8' (?) bales and asked him to show me how he likes to feed them. A little friendlier now but he has Angus and I just bought a small herd of American Wagyu. While he might not care if my bull gets over there, I care if his gets to my side. I just ordered 5 miles of electric fence to put up. Even though the boundary fence is 3' into my property I'm sending him a message that I'm electrifying it, along with 10-11 acres of my property. Figure I'm going high enough power that I should let him know even though it'll be marked. My closest neighbors 1/2 mile away (who are great) will also be notified and I'll put in gates and show them how to use them safely since I've given the permission to come down to do what ever. The kids like to visit the various animals and go fishing/hunting on the river. Hopefully it'll solve most of the problems we have had. He hasn't taken me up on feeding yet but I've went and done it anyways now that I know the signs they need to be fed (seems like always!). It's not like the hay isn't there! I hay my fields but sell most of it, I held back thinking we'd get a "couple" cows now I may be short since we have more than a couple Another thing I'll do since these animals attract flies is I'll be rotational grazing with chickens following them 2 days behind(they will have a chicken tractor and a area of protection for moving them), heard that will do wonders keeping them down. And, I get eggs and meat to add to items to sell when I get to that point. Ducks will do the same but my wife is attached to them Done with off topic! LOL

Boundary Fences	Landowner in Texas has no legal obligation to share in costs or future maintenance of fence built by neighbor, unless there was prior agreement to do so. If a boundary fence is destroyed by natural causes, a neighbor has no legal obligation to contribute to reconstruction. If only one neighbor pays for the fence, it is not a common fence but rather the exclusive property of the builder. If neighbors agree to maintain a portion of the fence, this agreement is legally binding and enforceable.
Spite Fences	A landowner has a right to erect a fence or other structure even if it obstructs a neighbor's view, lights, or air. Motive for erecting a fence is typically irrelevant, but property owners can't use their property in a way that constitutes a nuisance.
Tree Trimming	Trees forming the actual boundary line between properties can't be removed without the consent of both landowners. A landowner has the right to trim limbs or branches of boundary trees that reach onto his/her property so long as no damage to the other property owner. Branches can be trimmed only up to the property line. A tree's owner is liable for damages caused to an adjacent landowner's property by falling branches.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Good info!

I'd been meaning to comment on this. I'm a bit tardy...

Regarding hot wires, they just plain work! I have tattle-tales on my single top hot wire. If I'm not seeing them blink I know I've got a problem somewhere: deer will mess up the wire or a part of a tree will crash down on the fencing and disturb the wire. Raccoons were ravaging our chickens and as soon as we stung up a top hot wire the losses stopped instantly: [fixed knot] woven wire fence acts as ground; crawling things will be in contact with the fence/ground and then hit the wire and light up like a Christmas tree!

Regarding moving cattle/cows, I'd read of a lot of big time folks (grass fed folks) who were able to move cattle/cows on foot. Their key was to establish trust in the herd's leader. When needing to move you just work with the leader and then everyone else follows. One guy who grew up beating on cattle to get them to move ended up doing this passive thing and recounted how he had an emergency once that required moving like over 1,000 head of cattle and was able to do so, ON FOOT!

It actually does work for moving the cows around. I've spent the last week acclimating our cows and buddying up to the herd boss. I can lead them out to graze and she will follow me everywhere and the rest her, that is also a problem, she's gotten out to try to break into the house. Guess she decided that we are good company. lol One of the reasons I electrified their pen. Just seems cruel to keep them in it all day, only 300' of fence around it. Sunday though, they will have plenty of room, as long as I get all my posts in by then!

 

[DieselBound]

Just a bit of caution...

You will need to train your cattle to the fence. Go to the section "Training cattle to electric fences" for methods:

https://www.grass-fed-solutions.com/livestock-fencing.html


A problem for you, however, is that the fence works both ways, that is there's the issue of it functioning for your neighbor's cattle as well. If they aren't trained to it you're still going to end up with problems. You're going to have to get your neighbor to get cooperative here!

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Some of the Texas fence ruling decided..... See below.
I'm still at it with my neighbor, I got his attention when I texted a photo of his Angus bull in my field with this would be the perfect spot to drop him (legal in Idaho, just have to leave it lay). Since then he has been a little more attentive to his animals. Last week though I had his whole herd over, the problem was they were hungry and the grass is most definitely greener on my side (overgrazed by having 300 cows plus calves on it this summer). At this point I tried a different tact, I offered to go over with my big tractor and fork his 8' (?) bales and asked him to show me how he likes to feed them. A little friendlier now but he has Angus and I just bought a small herd of American Wagyu. While he might not care if my bull gets over there, I care if his gets to my side. I just ordered 5 miles of electric fence to put up. Even though the boundary fence is 3' into my property I'm sending him a message that I'm electrifying it, along with 10-11 acres of my property. Figure I'm going high enough power that I should let him know even though it'll be marked. My closest neighbors 1/2 mile away (who are great) will also be notified and I'll put in gates and show them how to use them safely since I've given the permission to come down to do what ever. The kids like to visit the various animals and go fishing/hunting on the river. Hopefully it'll solve most of the problems we have had. He hasn't taken me up on feeding yet but I've went and done it anyways now that I know the signs they need to be fed (seems like always!). It's not like the hay isn't there! I hay my fields but sell most of it, I held back thinking we'd get a "couple" cows now I may be short since we have more than a couple Another thing I'll do since these animals attract flies is I'll be rotational grazing with chickens following them 2 days behind(they will have a chicken tractor and a area of protection for moving them), heard that will do wonders keeping them down. And, I get eggs and meat to add to items to sell when I get to that point. Ducks will do the same but my wife is attached to them Done with off topic! LOL

Boundary Fences	Landowner in Texas has no legal obligation to share in costs or future maintenance of fence built by neighbor, unless there was prior agreement to do so. If a boundary fence is destroyed by natural causes, a neighbor has no legal obligation to contribute to reconstruction. If only one neighbor pays for the fence, it is not a common fence but rather the exclusive property of the builder. If neighbors agree to maintain a portion of the fence, this agreement is legally binding and enforceable.
Spite Fences	A landowner has a right to erect a fence or other structure even if it obstructs a neighbor's view, lights, or air. Motive for erecting a fence is typically irrelevant, but property owners can't use their property in a way that constitutes a nuisance.
Tree Trimming	Trees forming the actual boundary line between properties can't be removed without the consent of both landowners. A landowner has the right to trim limbs or branches of boundary trees that reach onto his/her property so long as no damage to the other property owner. Branches can be trimmed only up to the property line. A tree's owner is liable for damages caused to an adjacent landowner's property by falling branches.

I found a great spot where my fencer shouldn't "disappear", the old wire was destroyed. No solar this time either, to easy to walk off. I added a large greenhouse this year with power so that's where it's going.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Just a bit of caution...

You will need to train your cattle to the fence. Go to the section "Training cattle to electric fences" for methods:

https://www.grass-fed-solutions.com/livestock-fencing.html


A problem for you, however, is that the fence works both ways, that is there's the issue of it functioning for your neighbor's cattle as well. If they aren't trained to it you're still going to end up with problems. You're going to have to get your neighbor to get cooperative here!

Mine trained fast, I used 1"1/2 tape in their pen to start. His WERE trained at one point but with the voltage and having strands on both sides it should do the trick. I may have a few adjustments but I'm ok with that. Just in case, I have a 56k joule fencer on order also, a bit too strong for what I need but I was planning on putting it up for mating season to keep his and my bull under control. Mine are all bred so I'm good until next fall. His should be bred also and due about the same time. Most of the time I'll keep the smaller on on though, one of the neighbors has a pacemaker and I'd hate to have the big one shock him! Absolutely love my 2 neighbors!
I'm going to read that anyways, knowledge never hurts anyone...

 

[DieselBound]

I found a great spot where my fencer shouldn't "disappear", the old wire was destroyed. No solar this time either, to easy to walk off. I added a large greenhouse this year with power so that's where it's going.

Yeah, I run my fencer off of mains and the feed wire is a short hop from a [securable] shed I have.

Also be sure to have backup power. I have a backup generator that can power all my mains-connected buildings and stuff. My fencer is dual power, 110v/12v, so IF I needed to run it off a battery (have a deep cycle battery and solar panels) I can, and did so in emergency situations prior to having my generator all patched in and operational: relocated my shed this past summer and needed to use the panels and battery until I hooked up the mains to the shed. (NOTE: My stuff is really small-fry; no matter the scale though, the basics vis a vis management are the same.)

 

[DieselBound]

I've never actually raised cattle (I spent years reading up about raising grass fed- circumstances never worked out). I DID, however, have cattle from the neighbor's (leased grazing, so someone else's cattle) come on to my property a couple of times after I first acquired my property. No fencing between my place and the neighbor's as our property was recently split off from theirs (they have over 200 acres); other than it being a maze to traverse and cross between the properties the cattle managed to do just that. We'd had chickens contained within electronet fencing. I watched with amusement as these cattle came up to the fencing (which was actually in our front yard at the time!). And then I had a sense of horror as one of the cattle hit its nose on the fencing. It shock like mad (never experiencing such before) and, fortunately, went in reverse. The horror was the thought that it could have run right into the fencing (pricey stuff) and destroyed it (visions of tangled cattle and scattered chickens and, perhaps, a busted up chicken coop entered my mind)!

 

[Elviscaretaker]

From the article, "Once your cattle are trained to electric fences, you'll be amazed at how often a simple length of rope can trick cattle to calmly and quickly do what you want in situations that would be tremendous challenges to more traditional cattle herding tools like cattle prods, ATV's, men on horseback, and lots of rodeo-inspired shouting."
I'm going to try that in the next month just to see if it will work.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Yeah, I run my fencer off of mains and the feed wire is a short hop from a [securable] shed I have.

Also be sure to have backup power. I have a backup generator that can power all my mains-connected buildings and stuff. My fencer is dual power, 110v/12v, so IF I needed to run it off a battery (have a deep cycle battery and solar panels) I can, and did so in emergency situations prior to having my generator all patched in and operational: relocated my shed this past summer and needed to use the panels and battery until I hooked up the mains to the shed. (NOTE: My stuff is really small-fry; no matter the scale though, the basics vis a vis management are the same.)

Never say never BUT, we have never lost power. I do have a gen set for the house but I don't for the other two mains on the property. The little one can be powered off a battery with a simple wire switch out. I'm new to farming pretty much. I'm a city boy who married a small town girl so.... I'm keep her happy and me entertained! She is a bit concerned about the 56k joule fencer I ordered but she lost interest when I started to explain the workings and power of the units. Just says she won't be touching it. LOL
Electric is the way to go once they are trained, I've watched the neighbors go through every thing. I put up a structural steel gate I made, it held up but they broke the 10" posts I had it mounted to and the gate was so damn heavy you never wanted to mess with it. That was the latest when the whole herd came to visit.
Unless you have 1000 acres, it's all small fry. But yes, it's all in the management and I just hope to learn it all, the right way to do it. Trial and error and keeping a sense of humor. The old neighbor used to run a 10k head herd in his youth with his brothers and has helped a bunch, he just didn't keep up on the tech or the laws. He's 90 so he doesn't need to! Still a better shot than I am also.