fill dirt questions

[dave1949]

Thank you. Not looking to do a pond here, wanting to keep pastures. As far as one hole, would have to be very big to hold the fill dirt, its a lot. Stumps, maybe 20 trucks. Fill, 200 maybe?

I forgot to say Welcome!

The 200 loads of fill will be pretty ugly stuff I think. If it wasn't then they would likely use it or sell it. I picture it being full of root pieces, stump chunks, branches and limbs, etc. It would be a heck of a project to sort the dirt out of that, then what do you do with all the woody stuff? I can picture working it with a grapple and skeleton bucket, dragging out and scooping up the junk leaving the dirt behind. Even if only 1/4 of each load was woody junk, that's 50 truck loads.

I dunno. I would think long and hard about using that fill. Maybe as MacLawn said, consider other building methods that don't require as much fill. It sounds like fill is in high demand in your area.

 

[2458n]

Your going to get 200 loads of crap that he got paid to haul away from other jobs. With burning being a thing of the past it is his problem not yours keep it that way.

 

[EddieWalker]

Looking for help with fill dirt. Have a smaller 7ac plot of land in coastal SC that has held horses for many years, it is low and has about 4-5' of clay then good sand underneath. Pine trees border the property ditch lines as well as in the pastures, though they are scattered about. Needless to say, it holds lots of water. Lots.

Wife and I are going to put a home on site but work needs to be done.

There is a site works contractor down the road that has unscreened fill material with roots and other organic material in it that they will truck to me and spread out with dozer along with about 20 dump trucks of large tree stumps they will bring over, dig holes for them and cap.

Thinking of using dug out material from stump holes to use at home site and fill material for surrounding areas just off home. Going to use ripper rake to remove large debris in the fill material after placement with my Kubota 3750 with a LA950A, also have Woods box blade w/ depth ajustable Ripper teeth, 5' Woods roller, & yard rake to help with some things. Even doing this, I know there will be a fairly big settling issue down the road for the "yard" areas and a big settling issue where the stumps are.

The contractor has also said if access road can't handle the use, they will bring in material to make it work.

Advise? Problems seen or experienced? All advise welcome, good or bad.

Thank you

Like the others have said, stumps are going to cause long lasting problems. Once you dig the hole to put them in, and then dump the sumps in the hole, it now becomes impossible to fill the hole and compact it. The dirt will never fill all the voids around the stumps.

Several things are then going to happen. The dirt will slowly settle over time depending on how much moisture you have. When soil gets wet, it settles and then when it dries out, it hardens naturally. This takes a long time. Add to this that the stumps will now start to slowly decay over the next decade or longer, which means that the soil will still be moving around for as long as the stumps or decaying. You also have to consider that disturbed soil will hold more moisture then undisturbed soil, so the area that is dug for the stumps will be soft and mushy for much longer periods of time then the surrounding soil.

This also happens to a smaller degree on fill dirt that has organic material in it, and why you never want to use it for building up a pad that you plan to build anything on top of. Whatever it costs to get clean fill material, it's cheaper then dealing with foundation issues in the future.

I don't understand what you mean by the land holding a lot of water, but in my experience, what you are planning on doing is going to cause it to hold water in new areas and make building impossible in any area you dig or add unclean fill material. If you go into this understanding the long term issues and plan for it, then it might be worthwhile. To me, it sounds like a headache that I would rather avoid.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[i579rbd]

Ditto on what Eddie said. My house is about 20 years old. One of the pastures was made from cleared woods. They left the stumps and covered them up. I now have a bunch of huge "potholes" in my pasture caused by the stumps rotting. that contractor has to know he is doing wrong. I would avoid any dealings with him.

 

[NS Gearhead]

Meh, if you're looking to fill in a spot that's not vital go for it! Free is free. Even if you have to re-smooth later or add a little fill, you're still way ahead.

I'm in a similar situation as you, but using it to extend my yard. There would have been no way for me to pay full price to have it done. My only advice to you is to get something in writing. How much they're going to cover it (in feet perhaps) and how long they're going to take to complete it. I've been waiting years now... but what can I do. Nothing.

Anyway, I plan to plant lawn over it... if it settles in 10 year and I need a load or two of topsoil and to re-seed... so what! I'm still 60 loads and about $5,000 ahead.

 

[SPIKER]

I'm with the others, if you can burn in your area maybe but if not then I would avoid it because of future issues.

In a lot my sister owned was once a old house foundation the home burnt and when knocked down was stuffed into the hole and filled over. This was done in 84 or 85 & I helped salvage usable material from the partly burnt place, what was left, as stated into the hole. It took 3 or 4 semi truck loads of clean fill on top and every 4 or 5 years 3 or 4 pickup truck loads more. When I last seen the area it needed twice as much. I bought the lot from her in 90's and ended up selling it to a step nephew who still owns it. The old foundation is 50 x ? 30ish & has 3'+ low spot in the center at last look.

If you have a lot of clay on top of sand then you may want to simply tear up the clay pack so it can drain with sand below it will go much better than you may think. Some tile put in with a big trencher will save you a LOT of headaches in the future.

Mark

 

[Egon]

Really not sure what the object is? Is it to build up a pad for the house using material from a hole dug for unkown debri?

If so if there are contaminates in that debri they become your problem. As well as decay and settlement.

 

[dave1949]

Here is a useful article on burying trees and stumps. Tree waste was buried sometime before 1979 (likely) and 4' of clay cover collapsed in 1993.

Two things to note:
1) Air voids were left in the material.
2) The woody material had not decayed much at all.

It is not uncommon to bury trees and stumps here in a location that will never be built upon. I have two whole tree bury pits and I had one at my previous house. These are not on a 200 truck load industrial scale however. They were well packed with a large excavator--wham! I could feel the ground shake through my shoes while watching it done. Stumps rotting at the surface or stuff just pushed into a hole without proper packing is not an apples to apples comparison.

The problem facing the OP is who will supply the heavy equipment and use it properly to pack the stumps and woody debris in the hole? It is opening yourself to some risk that would be better avoided unless other factors overcome that exposure. Plus the regulatory questions that others have brought up.

Buried Stumps Are Blamed For Sinkhole - New York Times
He said large tree stumps were found under four feet of clay and extended down to 18 feet below the surface. Because of the way the tree debris crisscrossed, voids or air pockets were formed and over time the clay fill above the tree debris settled into the air pockets.

Because of the clay's cohesive properties, the surface area formed a bridge that disguised what was going on underneath. "A fissure developed, but it was not manifest at the surface," Mr. Parrello said.

It was into this fissure that the boy slid after breaking through the clay crust at the surface, he said.

There was a suspicion that the organic debris might have rotted in the ground, making the problem worse, but Mr. Samuel said, "There was not much deterioration of the material.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Watch out. You could be charged with operating a waste disposal site. Around here, a stump dump is permitted and engineered....And inspected by the state. With local zoning approval....Not a land use right. Depending on your local zoning laws.. it could end up costing you a bunch of time & money. Might even have to dig up the materials and truck it to a permitted site at your expense!

Do some due diligence before allowing this on your land.

I'll second this motion. Rules and regulations are getting tighter all the time. Be sure you are on the right side of them. You say your lot is low, ? does that mean you are in a flood plain? If so you might not be able to legally place fill there as you filling yours pushes flood waters towards your neighbors.
A twenty year old stump dump is an excellent place to dig out top soil. What was stuck between the roots of the stumps has been added to by the rotting stumps. You might have them build a long low hill with them similar to a levee only with flatter sides and plant it to trees or grass. Being above grade the stumps would rot faster and you can use your tractor to fill in any sink holes that develop. But be sure to not build anything on it that you care about.

 

[tcreeley]

Clay always messes up drainage. Surface drainage planning is the only way to deal with it- like a bowl, water will find the low point and stay unless there is an outlet - some other place for it to run to. As the season turns drier- it is less of an issue- but wet season can be awful. Add fill- gravel, stone etc. Topsoil is good for growing, but it makes terrible fill. In Maine the DOT scrapes the edges of roadways, and people get that dumped for free as fill. The fill is full of road salt spread on the roads all winter. By just looking you can't tell what is in fill. -Maybe someone's 1000 gal gas tank sprung a leak and someone has a contract to dispose of it. It could end up in your yard- probably wouldn't, but looks aren't enough to tell!
Use gravel and get someone to slope your surfaces to remove water.
Landfills are creepy- I drive by one that towers above the trees- stinks and is full of out of state contractor waste. Nothing is free- if it is, there is a reason why. Look into it.