fill tires or not?

   / fill tires or not? #91  
Sunnyside,
Did you look at the Titan manual you quoted? Page 37 of the PDF "Optimum Tractor Tire Performance" says "Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop" and it goes on to tell you how to properly balance the tractor via the procedure I outline above. The manual later tells you how to do liquid fill if you insist.

Similarly, look at this Clemson university abstract from the Michelin manual:

http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/safes/...rojects/brannon_setzler_michelin_ag_tires.pdf

It says plainly on page 1 that liquid ballast is not the optimum recommendation. The Firestone ag manual is no longer available online but my copy said the same thing, and in the online abstract it discusses removing liquid ballast to solve problem like tire hop.

If you just do a search on my posts you'll see many more references to the above. It's clear that although the tire manufacturers may tell you how to do liquid ballast, their first recommendation is that you NOT do liquid ballasting but rather follow the Goodyear procedure outlined above to get better traction and balance than you can get with liquid fill.

This is what my Deere dealer told me when I enquired about filling the tires. He told me you don't need to and explained the above. I later looked up all these references because what he said went against the conventional wisdom I had read on TBN.
 
   / fill tires or not? #92  
msmud,

I will not argue with most info provided except you stated "Perhaps the JD salesman recommended against filling the tires just as EVERY tractor tire manufacturer I have checked (Goodyear, Michelin, Firestone) recommends against filling the tires.". I have never seen any authority on the subject that said DO NOT use liquid ballast in tractor tires. They may state liquid ballasting is not the most optimum method for reasons stated but will usually indicate it is the most economical way and then proceed to specify how to do it because it is the very popular and economical way of ballasting tractor tires.

Where I live, tractor dealers will automatically add liquid tire ballast when purchasing a tractor with FEL. The ballast will almost always be either CaCl or antifreeze unless the buyer asks for Rimguard, wheel weights, and/or ballast box. All three of my tractors have Rimguard in the rear tires because that is what I prefer for reasons listed previously above and elsewhere on TBN.
 
   / fill tires or not? #93  
"Liquid ballast should be avoided" is pretty plain English. And, as I have listed in several posts, there are numerous published documents that say and explain why. Yet, what I find fascinating about this "Fill tires or not" debate is that if a recommendation is made on TBN re: this issue, it is almost always to do what the ag manuals and extension agency bulletins recommend against. Perhaps what is most interesting to me above all is how few people seem to be aware of what the recommendations really are. I have tried to bring them up from time to time on the forum--not because I am some expert (I am not), but because I was puzzled by my dealer's recommendations not to fill the tires and I unearthed the pubs that explained why-- and so has a gentleman named Art from NY, who really does seem to have a lot of tractor experience. But precious few other people on the forum have ever mentioned the proper tractor-balancing technique.

Filling one's tires is cheap and not dangerous; this is why this technique has perpetuated. But why don't more people talk about the axle balancing/let the air out of the tires/add iron weights at the end only if needed technique? It too can be very cheap. In fact, it was cheaper for me than liquid fill because I needed no wheel weights at all with this procedure, nor any liquid fill. Most importantly, it leads to a better ride and better traction than liquid ballast.
 
   / fill tires or not? #94  
Sunnyside,
Did you look at the Titan manual you quoted? Page 37 of the PDF "Optimum Tractor Tire Performance" says "Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop" and it goes on to tell you how to properly balance the tractor via the procedure I outline above. The manual later tells you how to do liquid fill if you insist.

Similarly, look at this Clemson university abstract from the Michelin manual:

http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/safes/...rojects/brannon_setzler_michelin_ag_tires.pdf

It says plainly on page 1 that liquid ballast is not the optimum recommendation. The Firestone ag manual is no longer available online but my copy said the same thing, and in the online abstract it discusses removing liquid ballast to solve problem like tire hop.

If you just do a search on my posts you'll see many more references to the above. It's clear that although the tire manufacturers may tell you how to do liquid ballast, their first recommendation is that you NOT do liquid ballasting but rather follow the Goodyear procedure outlined above to get better traction and balance than you can get with liquid fill.

This is what my Deere dealer told me when I enquired about filling the tires. He told me you don't need to and explained the above. I later looked up all these references because what he said went against the conventional wisdom I had read on TBN.
Link "explanation" looks more like a study on the negative without qualification of how negative various factors are. Some statements are simplistic and should not be taken at face value. Also prevalent is assuming worst case of fluid fill vs possible advantages to some types of users.
larry
 
   / fill tires or not? #95  
msmud,

I will not argue with most info provided except you stated "Perhaps the JD salesman recommended against filling the tires just as EVERY tractor tire manufacturer I have checked (Goodyear, Michelin, Firestone) recommends against filling the tires.". I have never seen any authority on the subject that said DO NOT use liquid ballast in tractor tires. They may state liquid ballasting is not the most optimum method for reasons stated but will usually indicate it is the most economical way and then proceed to specify how to do it because it is the very popular and economical way of ballasting tractor tires.

Where I live, tractor dealers will automatically add liquid tire ballast when purchasing a tractor with FEL. The ballast will almost always be either CaCl or antifreeze unless the buyer asks for Rimguard, wheel weights, and/or ballast box. All three of my tractors have Rimguard in the rear tires because that is what I prefer for reasons listed previously above and elsewhere on TBN.

Agreed, solid weights are dangerous, and expensive.
CaCl is hazardous to the environment
Rimguard is not.
I chose Rimguard

:tractor:
:cool2:
:jump:
:scubadiver:
 
   / fill tires or not? #96  
what does Michelin know about tires anyway?
:D
 
   / fill tires or not? #97  
I am the owner of an AC B212 garden tractor with a FEL. After restoring my tractor which included many changes including replacing the front axle with a cast iron one from a IH Cub , I filled the rear tires with windshield washer fluid. My first trip out with my wife videoing, I rolled it on a small grade. I had a light load of pine branches on a pair of aluminum forks attached to the bucket. It happened so fast I had littlone time to react. There were other factors, the brakes / clutch weren't adjusted correctly but I thought I could get away with using it "just this time" anyway. You are welcome to watch the event on Youtube, "AC tractor with loader rolls over" followed by the video of righting it. I am not proud of my poor judgement, I did't post it on Youtube but I did give permission to the person who posted it so others can witness what could have been a tragic event. Neither the tractor or I was hurt, only my tail bone and pride were brused.
Please be carefull and reconsider adding approved fluid to the rear tires. If you fill them completely eliminating the air space the rims will not be damaged.
John
 
   / fill tires or not? #98  
"Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop." is the entire statement. I've been tractoring a long time (over 50 years) and have never experienced or heard anyone else complain about power hop in compact tractors. Regarding ride degradation, I am quite happy with mine with tires filled to 70%.
 
   / fill tires or not? #99  
"Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop." is the entire statement. I've been tractoring a long time (over 50 years) and have never experienced or heard anyone else complain about power hop in compact tractors. Regarding ride degradation, I am quite happy with mine with tires filled to 70%.

Well Dangit Sunny, didnt you read that fancy link that told all us dern fools not to fill our tires?
Me personally, I try to believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet.

Common sense is wasted on peoples like me

:thumbdown:
 

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