Finally started pole barn - 40x50

[cowpen]

I found this site a couple of months ago searching for tips and techniques as I planned my pole barn project. What a fantastic resource TBN is! I've literally spent hours on end reading and learning about the various projects the members here have undertaken and were generous enough to share on the forum. Good stuff - I'm learning a lot.

I've been planning to build a barn for a long time. But life always seemed to get in the way, and the barn just kept slipping down the ol' priority list. Now, between the swamp buggy, ATV's, boat, other toys, and soon a tractor, I've got no choice but to get busy! I have lots of questions, but first I'll explain where I'm at in the process.

The barn will be 30' wide by 40' deep by 12' high under trusses, with 10' wide sheds on each side. Total is 40' x 50'. It's hot & humid here almost year 'round, so I'll be closing in the north and east walls only - leaving the other two sides open to allow some breeze. I'll also have 2 foot overhangs on the eaves and gable ends.

I've been hashing out the design using a free program called Google Sketchup (very slick, very easy check it out). Here's what the basic frame will look like:

 

[cowpen]

I'm building this mostly on my own, and at my own pace (slooow). I'm also doing my best to do it "on the cheap" without compromising structural integrity, appearance or utility. I checked with the county building department to pull permits and discovered I don't need any as long as no septic is involved. I'm zoned agriculture, and this will be an ag outbuilding. Lucky me I'm off the hook in this regard, but I still want to build it to last, and build it safe.

I've been gathering (plundering) materials for the last six weeks. A friend had some 8.5" square marine-treated pilings that he salvaged from a house on Captiva Island. I bought 16 of them for $50 each. They ranged between 19 and 25 feet long. I expect that I will rot before they do.

Then I found a crap-load of nice lumber locally on craigslist.org. Got 21 No. 1 grade 2x10x16ｴs, and ten each 2x8x16 PT and 2x6x16 PT, plus a 5-gal bucket full of Simpson truss brackets, hurricane straps, and rafter brackets, all for $300.

Trusses were harder to find, but 84 Lumber gave me a decent deal on a set in the yard that were exactly what I was looking for - 30' span, 4/12 pitch. Those were $900 delivered; about $400 cheaper than if I'd had them built to order.

I'm still looking for metal for the roof and poly foil insulation. Any suggestions for S. Florida metal dealers? I'll probably go with a 26 gauge 5-V crimp since that's what almost everybody around here uses, but I'm also considering one of the 36" ag panels.

 

[cowpen]

Here's a shot of the posts - they're monsters.

 

[cowpen]

Here's a view of the site looking northeast. The pad was created a couple of years ago when I dug a pond to improve drainage and build a road around the back of the house to the barn site. The house is about 100' to the right in this picture.

You can barely make out the corner stakes I jabbed in the ground to see how it was going to fit the pad. I'll have to fill in a bit on three corners, and take out a couple of pine trees on the left side so that I can drive around the back of the barn.

Also looks like I'm going to have to move the burn pile.

 

[cowpen]

My friend Dustin is a contractor and he helped me set up batter boards to keep everything semi-square. After we finished and checked the cross measurements, he says "Uh oh! - we're an eighth-inch off". He had me going for a minute until he let on that was as close to perfect as it gets with string on a 40x50.

I'm fortunate to have some good friends willing to lend me the tools and equipment I need for this project. Dustin had a PTO driven PHD, and another friend Tod loaned me his TC55DA to run it. There's no way I could set these monster poles without it. Luckily, he hasn't needed it back yet!

Tod also offered his laser level (with detector), and a framing air hammer. It's great to have good friends.

 

[cowpen]

Half of the poles up!

Here I've finished setting half of the big-honking-*** poles; mostly in the right place and level. The tall ones weigh at least 500 pounds. They're set 4' in the ground.

It was a challenge getting the chain around them in just the right spot so that the FEL could lift them vertical. Once everything was balanced I could drive over to the hole. One tall post had to be chained close to the center in order to clear the ground. Turned out to be top-heavy and it flipped right over! I got off and spun it back like a big airplane prop, and had my son hold it down while I guided it in with the tractor. That was fun...

Once the post was in the hole, I'd heave and slam it into one side of the hole or the other to scoot the base toward or away from the string. There was a lot of grunting during this part of the operation. I no longer feel guilty about skipping the gym.

 

[cowpen]

Since I had no extension, the three-point PHD was only good for the first three feet. Plus, it was only an 8" auger for 8.5" posts! I had to finish the last foot and "waller" out the hole with a set of the long-handled manual variety. They're very efficient - it feels like you're getting a 5-gallon bucket of sand with every bite. These things will make your shoulders scream!

 

[Tororider]

Well, I am going to jump in here before you can post again, hehe. Looks great, lots of work. I will definitely be watching your progress.

You are definitely right about the site, there are a ton of really smart people on here who I have learned a bunch from.

 

[rexcramer]

Are those posts treated? I would hate to see a great barn with rotted footings.

Whats your plan on getting the trusses up? My barn has 12' walls as well. I used a steel boom off my 580 Case front bucket, it was about 15 feet long. With the boom chained to the top of the truss I only cleared the headers by a foot or so. With your tractor you would need a little longer boom I believe

 

[cowpen]

I set the last of the poles but ran out of 2x4 bracing. Will have to make a run to town.

I read the threads here about poles and concrete with great interest. So many different approaches and opinions on that subject. I chose not to use any concrete in the holes. Our sandy soils stay sopping wet a good portion of the year and I've had bad luck with concrete against wood of any kind. I'll tamp them well when the tops are tied together - I'm confident they're not going anywhere. I'll also wrap the posts with felt before I pour the floor around them.

The metal shed in the background normally just stores junk. I ran an extension cord to it and set the compressor and all my tools in there for the project. Sure beats hauling everything back and forth from the house.

The tarp canopy is covering my swamp buggy. I'll be glad to finally have her stored under proper shelter when this is finally done.

 

[cowpen]

Toro: Thanks! It is a lot of work, but I'm having fun with it. Slow and steady - no deadlines - no pressure.

Rex: Yes - they're marine-treated - about as treated as you can get from what I understand. You can see some light green powder on a few of them. This is the toxic copper compound that's still leaching out. The treatment doesn't reach all the way to the center of the poles, but it's very hard fat yellow pine.

My contractor buddy is going to bring a lull (telehandler) over on truss raising day. I was sweatin' bullets over how I was going to do it until he offered that. Should be a piece of cake. I was going to rent a rough-ground scissor lift to do it, but United wanted almost $1000 to deliver one for a week. I thought they were slow these days?

 

[cowpen]

After the poles were in the ground, I set up a laser level in the center and shot & marked an arbitrary reference line on all the poles. The laser line was impossible to see in the daylight, but my buddy's kit also included a detector that clamps to the story-pole. This thing could "see" what I couldn't.

After marking the poles, I used the one that was on highest ground and measured down from my mark to determine grade and set what will be the top of the concrete after I pour the floor. Then I could mark the poles for notches at the top to carry the truss beams.

I'm sure most everybody here already knows how to do this stuff, but maybe my overly detailed explanation of "determining grade" might be helpful to other construction newbies like me.

 

[cowpen]

Here are the beams that will carry the trusses & rafters. They're 40' long and will span about 13' between poles. They're doubled-up 2x10's with 1/2" plywood sandwiched between using plenty of glue and nails.

I needed a long flat spot to build the beams so they didn't end up with permanent bows in them. I ended up lining up the scraps from my poles every 4 feet and leveling them with a string. Worked great and I didn't have to bend over as far to glue & nail.

I built the first two beams using the 2x10's I bought through craigslist (these are the red ones in the photo). They're good straight boards, and marked No.1, but I think they're spruce or fir and I found one rotten one in the stack. The rest seem fine but I've decided I'll use these to hold up the rafters. I went and bought some good hard yellow pine to make the beams for the trusses. I nailed on 4-5" centers with 3" full-head ring shanked nails. Thank God for the nailgun!

The trusses will be on 4' centers, so only my gable end trusses will rest directly over poles. The idea of sagging concerned me, but everyone I've asked about it assured me that double 2x10 beams are plenty substantial. I hope they're right!

 

[weldingisfun]

You are looking good! Keep the pics and commentary coming.

 

[Danno1]

.

Cowpen,

What about hurricane uplift? Someone on a different thread was talking about nailing a cross piece to the bottom of each pole.

.

 

[cowpen]

Danno:
Uplift is the biggest concern here as far as roof loads are concerned. I really don't have any idea how to calculate it, but I do know that I'm more vulnerable because the barn is open on 2 sides.

I asked my contractor buddy about it. He's not an engineer, but he said that in addition to uplift, high winds add significant side forces on the poles which increase the resistance to pullout exponentially. He gave an example of trying to pull up a fence post. You can do it if you pull straight up, but add even a little sideways force, and it's not coming out.

Anyway, he was confident that the metal would peel off the roof before the posts lifted out of the ground. That's pretty much what happened to the pole barns in this area after Charlie and Wilma blew through. Lots of peeled back roofs, but no lifted poles. Most barns around here are open on at least 2 sides.

I'll post a couple more pics tomorrow to get the thread up to date. Then I'll pour out the big bucket of questions!

 

[cowpen]

Thanks to the time change, I had enough daylight after work last night to finish cutting notches at the top of the first row of the taller poles.

I left one of them long in case I needed to use the top as sort of a "gin pole" to help me hoist the beam up to the notches. I think the FEL will almost reach, but it's hard to tell until I get the beam chained and lifted. It's gonna be close.

I have to admit that this aerial chainsaw business is not my idea of a good time! To be honest, I can barely cut straight and square with a chainsaw when I have both feet on the ground, much less balanced on a ladder 12' in the air! I did end up cutting the last one from the bucket of the loader. I know that's not exactly safe, but it was a lot more stable than the ladder.

Any tips? I've got 12 more to cut!

 

[cowpen]

So I've been fiddling around in Sketchup with a slightly different roof design which I think looks a little better. It would also block more of the afternoon sun from shining in on the west side. But because of the drop down, I'd have to give up at least of foot of height at the eaves - even if I changed the pitch to 3/12. The other downside is that it would be a bit more expensive and time consuming to do this way.

I'm locked in now at 12' high trusses, but it's not too late to use this alternate design on the shed rafters. What do you think?

 

[TwinWillows]

FWIW I don't quite understand why you'd want the roof of the 10' side to start under the overhang of the main roof .

A little change in detail like that might not appear to add much work or $'s but from my experience (see my barn photo) having an overhang/wall/roof transition is a LOT more work & cost than your first design. Another observation, on my overhang/wall/roof I had quite a bit of vertical room to work on the wall & soffit for the high roof where you look to have only inches.

 

[cowpen]

Sorry for the long hiatus. I've been meaning to update this thread for a couple of months now. Lots of progress to report.

We used the tractor to lift the 40' truss support beams into the notches. Loader couldn't quite reach high enough to do it in one stab, so we tilted one end up to the notch, tied everything off, and then moved over a little to lift the other end.