Fireplace advice, Part 2

[EddieWalker]

Thanks everyone for your help. I went to a fireplace store yesterday and was dissapointed in what they had to offer. Neither of the guys working there were very helpful and didn't have any experience with wood stoves. They really seem to be focussing on the patio, outdoor aspect of things.

My original thought, and reasoning in my other thread about this was to go with gas due to the ease and simplicity of it. Of course, it was going to entail a major remodel of my living room, and a ton of money in all of that, but the end result was probably going to be fairly impressive. Or not. LOL

Now my thinking is that this is just for a few months of the year when it gets cold here. Even then, it's just cold at night and in the mornings. I don't really need to heat the house in the morning since I just get up, get dressed and leave for work. Same thing with during the day. So it's just in the evenings that it will be used, and only on those days it's cold outside.

Then the other concern is when I lose power. I wanted gas because I could also have hot water when the power is out. That would have been very nice last year, but for all the expenses involved in changing over to gas, I can just go get a hotel room and take a shower there, or go to a friends house.

The free standing wood stove seems to make the most sense. Minimal changes to the living room to install it. I've also realized that I don't have to do anything to my walls. I spent hours looking at pictures online and never found anything that I liked as much as sheetrock walls behind it. I'll put tile down under it, and leave the walls alone.

I've also come to realize that running the pipe straight up, through the roof, is the best way to go. Thank you for that suggestion.

The guys at the fireplace store said to use single wall pipe in the house, then double wall through the roof and outside. I've installed a few wood stoves in houses that already had them, and I was replacing old with new, and I used double wall all the way from the stove, into the ceiling box, and then outside. Was I being wasteful? Does it matter? Is there an advantage one way or another?

I've also been reading reveiws on a variety of websites. Napolean seems to be a very good stove that is consistantly one of the better ones, if not the best on some sites. I also read the reveiews where I can find them from people who actually own a wood stove and the brand they have. I've scratched the Northern Tool stoves off my list. While inexpensive, they also have a list of issues that come up over and over again in the reviews.

My current favorite wood stove is the Napolean 1450. Wood Burning Stove: 1450

Eddie

 

[homedad]

Single wall inside the living area allows more heat to leave the pipe and heat the living area. I also have a sidewall chimney in my shop and if it's cold outside and the chimney is cold it can be a bear to get it to draft. You end up with some smoke in the house. My new house has a tulikivi but it's probably way overkill for texas and a major engineering project to install.

 

[CurlyDave]

The guys at the fireplace store said to use single wall pipe in the house, then double wall through the roof and outside. I've installed a few wood stoves in houses that already had them, and I was replacing old with new, and I used double wall all the way from the stove, into the ceiling box, and then outside. Was I being wasteful? Does it matter? Is there an advantage one way or another?


In CA and OR, there is a code requirement to use single wall pipe in living spaces and double or triple wall outdoors.

I have had installers, store clerks, and building inspectors try to tell me why the code is written this way, and every one of the explanations has set off my BS detector.

 

[dmccarty]

The requirement to use single wall chimney in the house is odd. Ours is double wall. From the top of the stop to the top of the chimney. Not sure I would want single wall....

The double wall pipe in the house is warm enough.

Our fireplace is in a corner. The hearth is built up about 16 inches or so which puts the wood stove door at the right height for viewing when sitting on the couches. Just like the TV.

The top of the hearth has black marble, Ubah Toobha is how it is pronounced surely not spelled. The hearth is made up of brick and the walls behind the stove is double wall brick. The brick helps heat our bedroom and the study since the brick wall is exposed in those two rooms. The brick is the same as used on the exterior of the house so we like the looks. It is fireproof and it adds mass to hold the heat.

We have talked of adding another stove to the house for those periods when it gets down into the 20's and the teens. Since the floor is finished concrete we don't have to worry about the floor being fireproofed but the wall would be an issue. I know I saw some sort of fireproof wall board like stuff you could use around the stoves. It was not thick. I thick one could put tiles on the material or leave as is. But it has been awhile since I looked at this stuff. We just decided to not spend the extra money for another stove for the few days a year we would need the second stove.

Later,
Dan

 

[Matt_W]

I have a FPX36 ZC insert which I love but.....
There are few things I am not getting from this

I would first start with the highest EPA rated stove. The higher the effieciency the less heat loss and work it will be splitting wood for the season. (less wood will be needed)

If you are trying to burn for heat 24/7 you need to consider burn time, mine is rated at 10 hours but I am lucky if I get 4 from it. Don't get me wrong my fireplace will heat my 2500 sq ft home as long as I am there to feed it but... In the morning it is out...
There are so many factors for this it is very unclear on exactly what you will have once the fireplace is installed. Ex: type of wood, chimney draft/over draft (which may be my case), firebox size etc..

Also power outage is something great to consider.
My insert has a fan and when the power is out I get very little heat from it.

Catalytic converter or not has to be considered. Mine has one and it is more maintenance cleaning it. Also more $ when you need to replace it but it does provide more heat by burning the un-burnt smoke. Some vendors claim the same without it.

I think a free standing stove does provide more heat than an insert and also continues to heat while the fire is out from the radient heat of the cast.
Also can defeat the power issues with no fan.

I cannot give you any brands but a few things to consider.

 

[Molerj]

Until you have lived with wood, you just don't appreciate the mess associated with bringing logs into the house, burning them and removing the ash. There will always be 10 to 20 times as much dust in your house than without a wood stove.

Gas actually has a nicer fire, and is clean.

I don't want to be a pessimist here but..I agree with Dave. Freestanding woodstoves are messy. Stove pipe cleaning is messy. Wood smell is something you will get used to. Used a Vermont castings, Vigilant, for yrs. Sold that and bought a vermont castings gas stove. We use the 100 gal. tank. It is used just to feel comfy, so it isn't used as a primary source of heat.

 

[Egon]

Think Eddie is thinking more about ambiance and convenience rather than a full time hard heating stove for -40C conditions.

The stove he likes should be top line!:thumbsup:

 

[EddieWalker]

Guy on Craigslist, about half an hour from me, has Napolean 1400 for sale with pipes for $800 firm. He says it's two years old and he want the money to buy a flatbed. I'm going to take a look at it on Sunday.

Eddie

 

[MossRoad]

Guy on Craigslist, about half an hour from me, has Napolean 1400 for sale with pipes for $800 firm. He says it's two years old and he want the money to buy a flatbed. I'm going to take a look at it on Sunday.

Eddie

Eddie,
I have a 1400 here in South Bend, IN. All black with none of the fancy trim upgrades that are available. Those can quickly double the price of the stove, but man, they look nice! I like it a lot. The window is large and it really throws a great light on the room. Just beautiful to watch. We have used it 2 winters. I will be firing it up within the next week or two. Last year I lit it on October 1st and burned continuously till April.... 6 months, every day except for 4 when we were away or it was warm and I shut it down to clean it out or clean the chimney.

A few things I will mention for you to consider....

If the stove is cold, it takes it an hour or more to warm up the stove. It is lined with brick and it just takes a while to heat those bricks and the steel jacket up. Once it is hot, however, it stays hot!

If you burn good, dry wood, the front glass is self cleaning. If you burn not so dry wood, the front glass will stain up. The easiest way to clean it is to take some crumpled up paper, dip it in water, then dip that in the ashes. Use that to scrub the window glass. It cleans with little effort. No muscle required. It smears it up, but it knocks everything off. Just take a clean paper towel, wet it and wipe it down a second time and it is crystal clear. Trust me, it works great! :thumbsup: Of course, only do this if the glass is cool.

The rear of the stove sits just inches from a brick wall.. farther from combustible material. I do not know the side clearances. It is on the website. The rear and sides of the stove do not get anywhere near as hot as the top and front. The stove has a steel jacket around the sides and top so cool air flows up the sides and back under the jacket and by convection goes out the front and the top front vent. They make a fan kit that goes on the rear bottom and forces more airflow up the jacket and out the front. We do not have that kit. If I had it in a large room, I would look into it.

The ash tray in the pedestal is really convenient. It has a built in lid to close when carrying it outside. Nice to keep ash from flying around. I think I only emptied it half a dozen times over the winter. The stove is really efficient and our locust wood burns up almost completely with very little ash. You will get ashes around the inside of the pedestal and that has to be cleaned once in a while. If you empty the stove through the ash door into the ash can gently, this will reduce the amount of ash that flies around under the pedestal.

Get a good fireplace thermometer. I keep it under the grate in the top of the stove. I can read it through the grate. Experiment with temps to get most efficient burns for you and the wood you are using. Too cold makes creosote in your stove pipe, chimney and top cap screen. Too hot and you will expand your stove pipe and that isn't good, either. :laughing: You need the thermometer to help you adjust the single air control on that model stove. I start mine with it wide open. Once it is crackling and hot, I start moving the air control in. I find I can keep it on two and a half or three for the most heat without overheating the stove. Once it is going good, I can shut down the air control all the way and then back open to just one half of a point. That will keep the fire burning for as long as possible without reloading. On days when it is 30 or warmer, I make one fire around 6pm and then throw on a few more pieces around midnight and shut down the air control. That's it. No fire needed in the morning because the house is still 74 or warmer. If it is in the 20s, I'll load it at midnight. If it is below 20, I load it again first thing in the morning and then shut down the air before we leave the house. Of course, every home is different, you are in a warmer climate, and your mileage may vary.

We have black double wall telescoping pipe coming up out of the stove. That allows for length adjustment and allows us to remove that section for pipe cleaning. Then there are two 45's and a straight into the ceiling box, then triple wall pipe up through the 1st floor, attic and roof. Those are galvanized, except for the piece that is outside, which is stainless as is the top cap. What I'm getting at is galvanize is cheaper than stainless and if it is not visible, then who cares. If it were in an open room, I would stick with the black double wall.

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you for such a great reply and advice!!!!! I've exchaged a few emails with the guy who has it for sale, and he sounds legit. I always wonder about Craigslist, but have found some great deals on there, so maybe I'll get another.

Just have to wait until Sunday after noon to see what he has and to make the deal.

Thank you again, I really appreciate everything you said.

Eddie