Firewood processor build thread

[Scooby074]

Thanks and yes, I've very happy, but... I'm not done! Yes I was a little disappointed with the cycle speed and now I think I see why. I let Princess Auto lay out the hydraulic pieces for me, that was my biggest mistake. I fixed one of the two leaks that developed during my test, but the other one is the result of two fittings that don't go together and will never seal properly. I finally got to the hydraulic shop today and got the right fittings but I got thinking about some of the other fittings from Princess. From the power beyond valve on my 3 valve bank, they reduced the fittings from 3/4 to 1/2 and then back to 3/4. So the logsplitter valve isn't getting the flow that it should be getting making the cycle time slower, I'm just not sure how much it's slowing it down.

Anyway, now I'm going to tear the hydraulics out. I have to uninstall both valve banks to be able to remove those fittings. I'll take the fittings to the hydraulic shop and have them give me the right ones. Unfortunately, the support bracket for the valve is placed for the existing fittings. Once that changes, the support bracket will no longer line up with the valve. I'll have to cut it off and re-weld it or add another bracket.

I think this means I'll have thrown away all the fittings Princess Auto sold me, they were all wrong. A new video will follow with 16' logs and hopefully a faster cycle time.

Look at the fittings between the valves, they reduce to 1/2. The 90 fitting behind it is wrong too and leaks.
View attachment 416442

no doubt all those changes in size are causing disruptions/reductions in flow. 90*s do the same. I think I mentioned a while back about restrictions and hose sizes. The question is just how much restriction there is and what is the flow drop. This can be calculated, there are online calculators and charts to do this. Is it the main source of your cycle time? I dont know. You could spend $100 on fittings and it will still behave the same. Ideally you would install a flow metre and go from there before making any significant changes.You mignt only be 20gpm right at the pump!

Dont discount thick cold oil slowing things down either.

you know your cylinder size . Time its extension and use a extension time calculator forumula to calculate your gpm/

Cylinder Rod Extension Speed (Inches/Minute) = ( 231 x Q ) / Ap

Q = Flow Rate in Gallons per Minute

Ap= Piston Area = Pi x r2 = 3.1416 x r2


PA and online ordering to save a buck can be poison, as youve found. Im lucky that I have a very good hydraulic shop locally that treats me right. I can get name brand Parker hose for the same or less than PA sells their Ryco hose for. Plus I can pick their brain and theyve been known to give me some free fittings when I screw up and "it doesnt line up like I thought", cant put a price on that!

That return swivel 90* off the 3 spool valve, is that the one that is still leaking? Assuming that its NPT on both ends, the problem could be the hose barb itself and not the 90. Id try another one before pulling the 90. I pulled all the water hose barbs out of mine and just went with hydraulic hose with JIC for the returns. Expensive, but I got tired of chasing leaks.

The coupler between the 2 valves is a restriction in a pretty important part of your system. Id pull that out and stick a short piece of straight 3/4 hose in there. Dont move the valve until you have the hose made. There are minimum lengths of hose that can be made.

I wouldnt rip out all the fittings just because they are PA. The PA stuff isnt that bad, actually its better than the last bunch of Gates I bought. You can probably get by with moving the splitter valve and installing a short piece of hose. Maybe $30-50?

 

[aczlan]

The coupler between the 2 valves is a restriction in a pretty important part of your system. Id pull that out and stick a short piece of straight 3/4 hose in there. Dont move the valve until you have the hose made. There are minimum lengths of hose that can be made.

It looks like there is only an inch or two between the valves. Given that, I would put in a 3/4" nipple such as Eaton Weatherhead C3069X12 Carbon Steel Fitting, Hex Nipple, 3/4" NPT Male, 1.96 inches Length: Industrial Pipe Fittings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific in there rather than having a short (6" overall?) hose made up, but thats just me.

Aaron Z

 

[kiotiken]

That return swivel 90* off the 3 spool valve, is that the one that is still leaking? Assuming that its NPT on both ends, the problem could be the hose barb itself and not the 90. Id try another one before pulling the 90. I pulled all the water hose barbs out of mine and just went with hydraulic hose with JIC for the returns. Expensive, but I got tired of chasing leaks.

The coupler between the 2 valves is a restriction in a pretty important part of your system. Id pull that out and stick a short piece of straight 3/4 hose in there. Dont move the valve until you have the hose made. There are minimum lengths of hose that can be made.

I wouldnt rip out all the fittings just because they are PA. The PA stuff isnt that bad, actually its better than the last bunch of Gates I bought. You can probably get by with moving the splitter valve and installing a short piece of hose. Maybe $30-50?

Yes, the 90 off the 3 spool valve is leaking, but it's because it requires a cupped fitting in order to mate properly. The barbed fitting isn't cupped and will never seat properly.

I'm going to change the fitting between the valves for the power beyond port. I'll use a short fitting like the one aczlan posted. I'm hoping it'll be the right size, but realistically, there's very little chance it will line up to the mounting bracket exactly. It's a PITA, but I'll deal with that.

I'm not getting rid of the PA fitting just because they're from PA, I'm getting rid of them simply because they're all WRONG!!!! The only fittings I can think of that haven't been changed are for the filter and return to tank. Typing this now, I'm not going back for the last fitting without checking those, they're probably wrong too! I'm still using PA valves, cylinders and hoses. With the extra time, running around, gas, wasted parts that haven't been returned, it would probably have been cheaper to use my local hydraulic shop from the beginning.

 

[kiotiken]

It looks like there is only an inch or two between the valves. Given that, I would put in a 3/4" nipple such as Eaton Weatherhead C3069X12 Carbon Steel Fitting, Hex Nipple, 3/4" NPT Male, 1.96 inches Length: Industrial Pipe Fittings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific in there rather than having a short (6" overall?) hose made up, but thats just me.

Aaron Z

Yup, that's what I'm going to use.

 

[mikefromnh]

Yup, that's what I'm going to use.

Putting a nipple between valves is a PIA.

Do you have room for npt to JIC?

JIC 12M x 3/4 NPTM CONNECTOR

JIC 12F TO 3/4 NPTM SWIVEL

 

[aczlan]

Putting a nipple between valves is a PIA.
Do you have room for npt to JIC?
JIC 12M x 3/4 NPTM CONNECTOR
JIC 12F TO 3/4 NPTM SWIVEL

That would be an excellent option if there is space. That would make it easy to pull one valve down the road (if needed).

Aaron Z

 

[Scooby074]

Putting a nipple between valves is a PIA.

Do you have room for npt to JIC?

JIC 12M x 3/4 NPTM CONNECTOR

JIC 12F TO 3/4 NPTM SWIVEL

It is a pita, thats why I always put a piece of hose in if I can instead.

 

[kiotiken]

That looks good. I'm taking the group of fittings in on Tuesday morning to make sure I get what I need. If I can make a setup like that work, I certainly will.

 

[kiotiken]

I disassembled the valves and lines yesterday to be able to turn the logsplitter valve off to remove the fittings. When I got all the fittings off, the first thing I realized was that the fitting for the power beyond port that came with the valve is very thick and reduces the flow to a little less than 1/2". The only fitting that will go into the fitting in the power beyond port is 1/2" and then they upped the fitting to 3/4" to get into the logsplitter port. To me, the power beyond port isn't able to deliver the same flow as it receives, but that spec isn't listed anywhere, so I don't know for sure. I ended up just putting it all back together the way that it was. When I took it apart, there was a large piece of plastic wrap in the power beyond port, so it wasn't a complete waste of time. I'll be changing the filter fairly soon as I'm sure it's not the only one that got in there somehow.

So I fixed both leaks, put the valves back together and started a much bigger test than what I did in the video. Here's the good and the bad:

The good:
I was able to process what I think was the 2nd biggest log in the pile. It split no problem, but the pieces where a little on the large size and will need to go through again. There was no jamming.

I was able to process full, 16' long logs,... just! They stayed on my log rack but the large ones where difficult to roll into the trough.

The cycle time for the splitter improved as the fluid heated up.

I had several good pushes where the pump went into high pressure and even maxed out once, and everything stayed together and straight. The areas of concern have been the attachment point of the cylinder and the bracing for the box splitter head, both survived and the machine successfully withheld 53K # of force.

The pusher plate now consistently returns after it stops when I engage the roller system to advance the log. It was kicking off, now it just takes a little break before finishing the retraction.

The bad:
One large not so straight log with big knots wouldn't advance with the rollers. I ended up having to coax it a little with the tractor.

The saw got a little loose on the mount and I ended up cutting a 1/2" groove in 1/8" steel plate I don't think the chain is salvageable, but I'll spend some time trying since it's brand new and had never even been sharpened!

And no test would be complete without a show stopper! Right when I realized the issue with the saw, I noticed steam coming off the 5" cylinder I ran for my point and shoot thermometer and got a max reading of 153 F off the outside of the tank. Princess Auto assured me a 10 gallon tank was more than sufficient at the time, the hydraulic shop I ended up using after realizing Princess Auto has no idea of what they're talking about told me it was well undersized.

So here's the tank I'm thinking about using: 37.1 GALLON HYDRAULIC RESERVOIR . Anybody have any opinions on tanks? I'll check my local hydraulic shop to see what they have, but since two 2' hoses were $140, I don't think I'll be able to afford one of their tanks.

I also need to build the off shoot conveyor. I have a 6.5hp engine I'm going to use for that. I was thinking about going hydraulic since I'm re-sizing the tank now, but I'd either need to replace my engine with a larger one, use multi segment pumps in addition to my logsplitter pump or add a second engine and power only the logsplitter with one and the rest of the hydraulics with the other. Since I already have a spare engine, I think I'll start with that and save the $1500 modification.

 

[mikefromnh]

I wouldn't worry about the 1/2" power beyond port. A single 1/2" fitting won't reduce your cycle time... Just creates a bit more friction/heat. The valves CV rating or pressure drop takes into account fitting sizes.

Flow coefficient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ten gallon tanks does seem small. If things get too hot it might be more cost effective to add a oil cooler instead of a bigger tank and more fluid.