Firewood processor help

[J_J]

Somo flow controls have restricted flow in one direction and full flow in the other direction.

He probably does not have much pressure on the saw push cyl.

The saw max GPM input is 13.7 GPM continuous, and `5.7 intermittent.

 

[jonix]

I thought you where going to try and plumb the 30gpm splitter pumps into your saw motor. I think with your current saw motor and oil flows, its going to be hard to get a lot of chain speed and still have cutting power. I think I also mentioned that with your current setup the 3/8 chain might be a better choice. Using a motel computer so I cant see the videos until I get home. You say the say is slow, but if you can figure out a way to plumb your splitter pumps to work with your saw motor, it should be a badass saw. You wont be able to saw and split at the same time, but at least you should be able decrease the 35sec cycle times considerablely.

Flow controls only work in one direction, I believe you said you are using 2 seperate flow controls on you saw cylinder. You might try removing one of them so that the bar is fast in one direction and slow in the other. A 2.in bore cyl is a big cyl to push the saw thru the wood. If you can revese the cyl mount so that it pulls the saw instead of pushing it, that will help with reduceing down force on the bar and increase feed rate. It will work if you can get the flows right as well as the pressure low enough that it doesnt break the bar off its mounting bolts.

for now i canｴt spend more time..got to put machine working..but, yes, the goal is try to put some oil on it..maybe my splitter pumps can do it..i havenｴt figure it out yet, but i already know what kind of block valve I have: itｴs a "Walvoil" two pump hi-low unloading valve, and i have the schematics draw with all the simbology for this Walvoil valve, but it is chinese to me.. maybe you could "read" it for me.. ..think "AP" is high pressure in italian, an "BP" is low pressure.."T" got to be tank, and the others have no idea..

And yes, itｴs a BIG diference with 3/8 pitch..seems like the chain is almost twice fast..

well, donｴt knew that about flow control valves..the retracting cylinder line (as i have it now, it pulls saw back up to inicial position [yes i agree, if i reverse it should work better, and going to do that as soon as..uff..]) is working with the flow control valve totally open..so, isnｴt that the same, or equal to have no valve in it? ..i know if i close all the "extend" flow valve, the saw cylinder wonｴt move..

and, mudstopper, yesterday we have the machine working on that solenoids (got to improve more some time tasks) ..think you should go for that, grab a beer, and sit down watching work doing by itself..i was impressed, even with 35 sec cycles.. it worth every penny, if not give maintaining problems of course..

 

[jonix]

Somo flow controls have restricted flow in one direction and full flow in the other direction.

He probably does not have much pressure on the saw push cyl.

The saw max GPM input is 13.7 GPM continuous, and `5.7 intermittent.

Do you mean my saw motor input flow? if so, F11-010 parker motor have 25.6 GPM continuous max flow, and 28,5 GPM intermittent..

J.J..don´t you help me with one thing? tomorrow I need to set up splitter reliefs correctly, and don´t have sure how to do that, since i have hi low pressures to set up, and a sensor that don´t let me extend cylinder to max..you think i can do it this way?:

If i disable this sensor, the cylinder will extend to the max and is going to put all shop electricall installation down (trust me, it happens a lot)..so if i open the two reliefs that my Walvoil unloading valve have (one for HI and another for LOW pressure) all the way counterclockwise, when the cylinder extends to max the valve should bypass flow to tank since the pressure is set at the minimum, wright?..

then, think gradually ajust pressure UP in both LOW and HI pressure relief valves at the preset numbers (about 1200 PSI) should mean that my two pumps are going to bypass to tank at this pressure..and then if I set gradually up only my HI pressure relief valve, means that only this pump will flow to the cylinder above this preset pressure since the low pump is already adjusted and bypassing to tank at 1200 PSI..am I wright?..ajusting the second pump to about 2800 PSI, means that at this pressure my second pump will bypass oil to tank too, while my first pump is still bypassing it..all this have to be done with cylinder extend to the max..it´s should stay there, bypassing oil to tank, and not shut down shop electricalls, or damage a pump, or burn motor, or whatever..

Is this the correct way to set up this reliefs?..i have a 6000 PSi gauge connected to splitter main block valve, so it should be able to measure this easly..

 

[J_J]

Logically, the relief valve in a circuit is designed to protect the pump, and in your 16.5 GPM pump, it has a pump max pressure of 3000 psi, so you would set the relief pressure at 50 to 199 psi below the max.

However in your case, you have to stay within the HP rating of the electric motor.

To protect your electric motor, which is turning a pump , pumping 16.5 GPM, you would set the relief to 2250 psi. That setup will use about 24.1 HP.

Since that pump is running at max, how do you propose to shut it off and switch to the low GPM higher pressure pump?

You are at your limit just using the one 16.5 GPM pump.

If you could switch pumps to only use the 12.7 GPM, and therefore producing more pressure, you would set that relief valve to about 3050 psi. That setup would take about 24.1 HP.

If you could run both pumps with both relief set to 1200 psi, it would require about 25 HP. =18 ton

If you want speed, use the 16.5 pump. = 33 ton

If you want max force, use only the 12.7 GPM pump. = 46 ton

 

[jonix]

the systems does not work like that J.J..my WALVOIL two pump HI LOW unloading valve, must be working in a diferents way that you aare saying, because i measure timings to retract and extend cyl, and it got to work this way:

My two pumps work togheter all the time, with a combined oil of 12,7 + 16,5 GPM..so around 1200 PSI is going to be my pressure relief setting for the 16,5 pump because this pressure is my limit for 29,2 combined GPM, ir should be required 23 HP or so..since above 1200 PSI only the 12,7 GPM pump will work with pressure, it should hang up with 2800 PSI, requiring around 23 HP..

but my problem isn´t the reliefs PSI values..do you think that is a good way to set my reliefs?

 

[J_J]

Your electric motor life time is very well relative to pressure settings.

I may never understand how your system is set up

Maybe it does not work the way I said, but could.

What I would in do in your situation would be to add a solenoid dump valve on each log splitter pump and dump the the flow to tank on pump not required.

You want fast, use the 16.5 GPM pump.

You want high pressure, use the 12.7 GPM pump,

 

[muddstopper]

A little more figuring is needed if you plan to set one relief at 1200psi and the other at 2800psi. For one thing, you still need hp to make the 1200psi with one pump, and then you are going to have to have enough power left over to power the other pump up to 2800psi. Just because the one pump is dumping over relief doesnt meant is isnt consuming hp. you are still pumping 16.5gpm at 1200psi and than adding the 12.7gpm at 2800psi, you need to combine the hp numbers to find total hp needed. 16.5gpm@1200psi=12.8hp, 12.7gpm@2800psi=22.7hp. 12.8hp+22.7hp=35.5hp. I think to make it work, you are going to need to use a pressure switch along with your solenoid valve so that when both pumps are pumping and pressure reaches 1200psi, your 16.5gpm switches to dump to tank mode while the 12.7gpm is building high pressure. You would need to add a check valve to keep pressure from dumping from the hp pump to the low pressure pump and back to tank. With this method, as soon as pressure drops below 1200psi, the solenoid valve would redirect the the low pressure flow back toward the splitter and and speed the cyl to full speed. Right now, I think you will need at least 2 seperate soleniod valves to run your two pumps thru and somehow combine flows between the solenoid valves and the cylinder. Maybe the walvoil valve does that, I just dont know.

I dont know how the Walvoil valve is supposed to work, but it it keeps the high flow low pressure side up to 1200psi as it dumps oil, then you are still going to be way low on hp.

I am finally home and got to watch the videos. I will say the fabrication looks really good. Watching eveything work, I think you just need to concentrate on getting some more hp to your setup. they make them 3phase motors in a lot larger hp. Watching the video. it seems to me that your saw doesnt have the power to cut fast. It boggs if you increase down force, but otherwise seems to be cutting pretty well. Get the hp to make the saw productive and I think your set. Get enough hp to pull that .404 chain setup and let the big dog eat.

 

[jonix]

Don´t need that pressure switch.. :thumbsup:

relief set for all 3 circuits donne..today engineer give us a help..i realize many things..

the twin pumps work togheter.. the relief for the low pressure high flow pump was set @1200 PSI, and at this pressure i have both pumps working on splitter.
As soon as pressure rises, the low pressure high flow pump begins working with no pressure to tank, freeing all available HP to the HIGH pressure pump, that was set @ 2900 PSI..so, got HP for HIGH flow (15 TON @29GPM @1200PSI with 23 HP) and got HP for HIGH pressure (37 TON @12,7GPM @2900PSI with 24 HP)..for set this reliefs we have to disable splitter sensors, and they were set up at max cylinder stroke..

Saw is alot better..we ajust reliefs too, and it is cutting at max pump pressure..next step is try to give some more oil to the F11-10, thinking to change the 8,9 pump for one maybe with 20 GPM, should have HP for saw @1900 PSI, witch means the old one .404 pitch, 6500 feet/min at chain speed, and around 20 HP of power..can´t wait..

well, thank you all for keeping me up with this..it was a great help..!!!:thumbsup:

Soon i will have a video of automatic mode working with better configuration, and i will post it!

 

[muddstopper]

I did a little reading on those high low valves. It seems they work similar to pressure reducing valves in that they do switch flow to tank without running the fluid over reliefs. I still dont completely understand how they work. I did talk to some of the hydraulic folks at work on the phone this morning and they tried to explain it to me, but I think I am going to hit them up to go over it again next time I get back to their shop. This thread has given me an different ideal on how to plumb my processor than I had originally planned. I am also considering going with a variable displacement pump and closed center. I think I can secure one 90 gpm variable displacement pump that will run everything instead of using 3 separate gear pumps.

 

[jonix]

Hi everyone!

Sorry, i promissed you a video long time ago..only now i can post it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNTgKc7n1z0

Since then, i have a few upgrades in the processor, and have lots of broken and bended steel parts..50 TON requeries a very strong structure..I figure it out by the worst way