First tractor ... confused ....advice please!

[PILOON]

Sure hydrostatic is nice.
While I don't own one I have a fair number of hrs on a FEL equipped B21.
My tractor is A Mitsubishi gear drive and has a FEL and I use mostly for snow blowing.

The hydrostatic sure is nice, somewhat faster but there is nothing I can't do with my gear shifting Mitsu.
It is all about techniques and practice.
I installed a tooth bar (home made) on my FEL and even though it is clutched I get full buckets every time.
As to snow duties, again techniques come into play, example 10-12 inches I simply take a small bite (like 1/2 width or on first pass I lift the blower to take the top half)
Sure takes a bit longer but I'm not about to spend maybe $5-10 K to upgrade either and actually I could afford the luxury if I chose to.

Another factor to consider.
Older (proven brands) are much simpler to DIY maintain as the do not have computers nor anti pollution devices like additives that need constant topping off.

With an ohm/volt meter and a set of wrenches most handy guy type can do most of the maintenance and repairs himself.
Stick to the well known brands and purchase a parts/shop manual and you'll be happy.

My 2 cents! maybe .03 (inflation)

 

[dnw64]

I saw you are located in Jericho. I would guess you know about them already, but if not, check out Ackerman Equipment | Home | Jericho, VT

I bought my Massey from them and they seem pretty straight-up.

 

[paulfun9]

You will get used to and competent with it weather it’s a gear or hydro and as pointed out a in other post, as long as your obstacles are not littered across the lawn and evenly spaced a rear finish mower will work fine. I cut with one and have to negotiate around 26 trees. Doing so is no problem and I can get closer with the finish mower than I could with a zero turn or ride on with a center mount deck. So close in fact that I only have to trim up close to some of the trees on the 2nd or 3rd cut. The others are pines and the finish mower goes right under without me having to go under with it.

As far as the backhoe goes I will suggest you do some real consideration before going with it or not but there are some real advantages if your the type to do things yourself and are constantly coming up with new projects or changing things.
For me I would spend more money renting for how many hours I actually put on the hoe.
This doesn’t even begin to take into account the untold hours spent building up to the point where renting becomes feasible or the frustration of having to have multiple projects started but unfinished to ensure your rental time would be used effectively.
Also think about if you would be able to do projects for others with it. I live in an area with a lot of tractors in peoples garages and barns, but still make lots of cash every year doing small jobs as they all keep coming back because they “saved the purchase price of a backhoe when they got thier” 25 to 50HP tractor.
Last year I realized that when the cash was added up the neighbors with tractors and no hoe have paid for just over 1/2 of my hoe. When I average the hours and time saved by not having to go rent and compare that with the TRUE cost of rentals which includes hauling it, fuel for your truck or paying more for the rental which is the case if you can’t haul it yourself around here. Having to complete the job in a set time or paying extra for the extended time, missing out because your rental day turned out to be a wash out with the rain storms that snuck in, the purchase price was already covered and then some. So now it’s a tool that has paid me back in full for the purchase price and is always ready in a moments notice.
This doesn’t even take into account the convenience of having the ability of doing it right now, no wait time for an emergency like happend with my drain line last year. They wanted a lot of money to dig it out and wouldn’t be able to get to it for 3 weeks. I dug it out myself that night twice the distance they estimated and replaced the hole pipe instead of just fixing the section that went bad and at a cost far less than than they estimated. Not only did I save money but I also had one of thier workers here the next day because when I called and asked how long the wait would be if I dug it up the answer was if you have it done we can send someone out immediately. Sure was nice not having take showers with a garden hose and use a bucket for a toilet for 3 weeks. Guess I would have to say knowing what it’s like having to use an out house when I was Child I would have paid the full retail price of the hoe just to avoid that inconvenience alone.

Just remeber we are all different and value our time and money in different ways for different things for different reasons. Our plans might or might not change, projects may only be a once in a lifetime or you could be like me and like to keep changing things up (the wife is also always dreaming up new things also) so for me and many like me we would not be without a hoe.

Some claim taking a hoe on and off is a pain but in reality they are all not the same and some are downright easy. My Kioti for instance, the hoe can be installed, taken off and then put back on in about the same time it takes me to smoke a cigarette and take a few sips of my coffee. There isn’t even a need to remove the lower 3 point arms. It’s actaully harder to hook up most PTO powered 3 point attachments and many I know seem to have no issues with other brands.
Yes some can be a chore like my old JD was having to remove a cumbersome center mount deck, remove the 3 point arms then attach the sub frame and fiddle with it till it was in place so if purchasing an older machine pay attention to that. For things of his nature you should also consider that when I was young that wouldn’t bother me at all but now at my age I want it to be as easy as possible, but again I ain’t Dead yet and don’t really consider hooking up a 3 point attachment hard work so bending over to install 2 pins and hooking up 2 lines is no big deal.

Anyway good luck with you purchase what ever you decide to get.

 

[Baby Grand]

Mike,
Welcome to TBN and congratulations for thinking through the difficulties that life throws at you and making a plan to overcome them. I'd be proud to call you a Yankee.
Having never had a tractor & going through the process of getting your first with limited funds should confuse you. If it didn't you'd most likely be what my grandmother referred to as "simple".

I went through a similar process in 2007 and it was not a staightforward decision, by any means. The method that I used worked well for me: make a list of the jobs that you absolutely have to do on a regular basis, the jobs that you will need to do from time to time and the jobs that you think you might want to do. With that list in hand, figure out what attachment you will need to get the regular basis jobs and the jobs that need to be done from time to time and size your tractor to match those attachments. Don't forget to include the attachments in your budget.

Odds are, you will find that this approach yields conflicting answers that don't resolve easily. Such is life. A machine that's big enough to do meaningful earth moving can be on the edge of too big, heavy & hard to maneuver near a house, garage, parked cars, trees, fences, even mailboxes. Don't ask. Tires matter. Because you live in an area where snow, rain & deep frost are ways of life, you'll probably want something light with flotation (turf) tires to avoid making ruts everywhere you have a "lawn". Snow removal may also be a consideration - unless you contract that out.

The tractor in the photo looks like it has been well taken care of, kept out of the elements and lightly used. It's a nice size for doing many small of earth moving jobs - or even some big jobs if you're not in a big hurry. Seems way too big, heavy and hard to maneuver for lawn work. It would probably be fine for maintaining a field with a 3-pt finish mower or a brush hog type mower, depending on how rough the field is. TractorData lists the PTO as "Live" which might complicate field cutting. An over-running PTO coupling might be all you'd need to address that concern.

If it takes 5 hours to cut the grass, then I'd recommend a dedicated lawn mower (which you already have) and redefining what grass you consider "lawn" and what grass you're willing to think of as "field". If it's all "lawn", then you may want to consider upgrading to a better lawn mower and renting equipment to do the heavier jobs. A good, used, sub-compact or mini-ag might be a good compromise to get you the grass cutting capacity with a little light earth moving and good snow handling ability.

Good luck - keep kicking tires and asking good questions!

-Jim

 

[fried1765]

that New Holland is overpriced for a 25 year old tractor. You want HST

A 4x4 Ford 1920 TLB with 700 hours?
It is NOT over priced,.... especially if it is shuttle shift!

 

[fried1765]

Sure hydrostatic is nice.
While I don't own one I have a fair number of hrs on a FEL equipped B21.
My tractor is A Mitsubishi gear drive and has a FEL and I use mostly for snow blowing.

The hydrostatic sure is nice, somewhat faster but there is nothing I can't do with my gear shifting Mitsu.
It is all about techniques and practice.
I installed a tooth bar (home made) on my FEL and even though it is clutched I get full buckets every time.
As to snow duties, again techniques come into play, example 10-12 inches I simply take a small bite (like 1/2 width or on first pass I lift the blower to take the top half)
Sure takes a bit longer but I'm not about to spend maybe $5-10 K to upgrade either and actually I could afford the luxury if I chose to.

Another factor to consider.
Older (proven brands) are much simpler to DIY maintain as the do not have computers nor anti pollution devices like additives that need constant topping off.

With an ohm/volt meter and a set of wrenches most handy guy type can do most of the maintenance and repairs himself.
Stick to the well known brands and purchase a parts/shop manual and you'll be happy.

My 2 cents! maybe .03 (inflation)

BINGO !!!

 

[greggyy]

You could prob have 5 old tractors on that budget too....albeit minus FEL and hoe.

 

[Soundguy]

On the hoe.. be sure you need it...

I bought a used hoe.. got a great deal.. but frankly.. have only used it 3 times. Could have used it 4 times but that time I was in a rush, and the tractor it was living on was being a bit cantankerous.. so....

 

[PILOON]

OK, I'll add another slant to the backhoe debate.

Not the end all expert but I own a clutched tractor, have operated a hydrostatic and used a backhoe from time to time.

For the rather fewer times you will actually dig trenches a tracked mini 'digger' is really quite the way to go.

Example is my present home.
I rented a mini tracked excavator, did all necessary excavation, moved materials to appropriate locations and built retaining walls with boulders that presented themselves. With the dozer blade I had all the area ready for topsoil and sod.
That was 20 or so years ago and I'd do it all over again.
OK, some rocks (boulders) were kinda large but with a mini tracked machine I simply clamped the boulder between the shovel and the dozer blade and walked them to the wall I was building.
Oh yes. I'll add that I rented over a w/e so I only paid 1.5 days rental fee and got 2 days of usage.
Yes. I'd do it again.

 

[HAR]

Mike
For my 2 cents on this....
I live in Addison County, and have weather very similar if not milder than Jericho. I have an older (1999) Kubota B7300, 16HP, turf tires, with both Mid and rear PTO. It was about 2years old when I got it with 104hrs. It came with a 4' loader, 60" mid-mount finish mower, 54" rear snow thrower, and a 48" brush hog. I got a steal on it back in 2002. I have never looked back.

What I can tell you is hydrostatic is almost a given. While geared is good, for what you do most often, HST will be less work for you. Turf tires will not tear up your lawn, drive, etc when doing normal work. For snow and other extra traction, I put my chains on, both front and rear!

I use the bucket off and on year round. It takes me less than 10 minutes to put it on. It is used as a counter balance when I have the snow thrower, brush hog, or PTO driven generator on it. The mower is easy on and off, and I actually mount the bucket to make that even easier!

If I need a backhoe or trencher, I rent one....as I would seldom normally use one. For all the other jobs, the bucket does fine. I can mow an acre in about 40 minutes with my setup, and have used it to mow my neighbors yard when he is away doing 2.5 acres in just under 2 hrs. My snow thrower can easily tackle any snowstorm that we have had since 2002, including the big St Valentines party back in 2006-7? We had 24" and I spent most the day out clearing drives up and down our road, even getting a guy out who had buried his pickup with plow!

As you do not seem to be in a rush, I would say shop around, watching craigslist and dealer lots, keeping in mind your budget. There are deals out there!

 

[greggyy]

On the hoe.. be sure you need it...

Some guys just must have a hoe....

Sorry, you left the gate open for that one

 

[Gary Fowler]

Some folks definitely do not need a TLB, I am not one of those guys. I bought my B26 used with 68 hours on it. I now have close to 500 on it and the back hoe has never been off. I don't mow with it, although the previous owner had a 5 foot shredder that he used and claimed it handled it well (I did see a photo of him cutting some waist high grass with it). I never really thought I would have so much use for my backhoe. I have 11.2 acres with about 6 of it in yard that I mow with my zero turn in about 3-3.5 hours.
I use the TLB to keep rocks dug up that appear every spring (my soil grows a bumper crop every year), dig trenches/ditches for various reasons, dig up leaking water lines, dig graves for animals when needed, dig up unwanted trees, dig holes to plant trees/shrubs in the yard (haven't used a shovel or wheel barrow since I got the TLB), pickup and move limb trimming and storm damage, use the backhoe with thumb to hold up trees for cutting to size, pick up limbs and small trees to pile up on burn pile using the backhoe and lot of other uses.
I would not be without my TLB for general maintenance of my property.
Almost all my usage now would not be done or would be back breaking manual work without my TLB. I sure as heck wouldn't go rent a TLB to dig up a rock that my lawnmower was hitting, instead it would be pickaxe, shovel and manual lift to load it into the FEL for disposal. With my 69 year old bad back that is either not going to happen or is a doctor case waiting to happen. Your use my not match mine and only you can decide if it is worth the extra money.

For my dollars, a TLB would be my choice and when I could afford it, then a commercial grade zero turn mower (lightly used would be better than a new residential grade) for the yard. I would not mess with a finish mower for the tractor to mow with. I get close enough to my trees, shrubs, house walls that I need very little weed eating. About once or twice a year, I weed eat around my trees and once a month or so I do the sidewalks. I am not **** about the large yard so I little bit of grass around a tree doesn't bother me (from 100 feet away it cant be seen anyway until it gets really tall).
I get within 1-2" of my trees etc with my zero turn and I defy anyone with a finish mower to get closer than that. I do keep my trees trimmed up (in all but a couple of cases) so that I can travel under them without hitting limbs. Close mowing is a matter of making the landscape conform to your mowing requirement and not vice versa.

 

[4570Man]

Some folks definitely do not need a TLB, I am not one of those guys. I bought my B26 used with 68 hours on it. I now have close to 500 on it and the back hoe has never been off. I don't mow with it, although the previous owner had a 5 foot shredder that he used and claimed it handled it well (I did see a photo of him cutting some waist high grass with it). I never really thought I would have so much use for my backhoe. I have 11.2 acres with about 6 of it in yard that I mow with my zero turn in about 3-3.5 hours.
I use the TLB to keep rocks dug up that appear every spring (my soil grows a bumper crop every year), dig trenches/ditches for various reasons, dig up leaking water lines, dig graves for animals when needed, dig up unwanted trees, dig holes to plant trees/shrubs in the yard (haven't used a shovel or wheel barrow since I got the TLB), pickup and move limb trimming and storm damage, use the backhoe with thumb to hold up trees for cutting to size, pick up limbs and small trees to pile up on burn pile using the backhoe and lot of other uses.
I would not be without my TLB for general maintenance of my property.
Almost all my usage now would not be done or would be back breaking manual work without my TLB. I sure as heck wouldn't go rent a TLB to dig up a rock that my lawnmower was hitting, instead it would be pickaxe, shovel and manual lift to load it into the FEL for disposal. With my 69 year old bad back that is either not going to happen or is a doctor case waiting to happen. Your use my not match mine and only you can decide if it is worth the extra money.

For my dollars, a TLB would be my choice and when I could afford it, then a commercial grade zero turn mower (lightly used would be better than a new residential grade) for the yard. I would not mess with a finish mower for the tractor to mow with. I get close enough to my trees, shrubs, house walls that I need very little weed eating. About once or twice a year, I weed eat around my trees and once a month or so I do the sidewalks. I am not **** about the large yard so I little bit of grass around a tree doesn't bother me (from 100 feet away it cant be seen anyway until it gets really tall).
I get within 1-2" of my trees etc with my zero turn and I defy anyone with a finish mower to get closer than that. I do keep my trees trimmed up (in all but a couple of cases) so that I can travel under them without hitting limbs. Close mowing is a matter of making the landscape conform to your mowing requirement and not vice versa.

I agree with the backhoe part. Digging up a water line leak, digging up a few rocks, digging a hole for whatever reason isn’t working spending the better part of a day and a couple hundred dollars in a rental. Those projects will either not get done or with a shovel. My backhoe was great. I’d really hate to be without one. I got most of the 5-6k investment on my tractor backhoe back when I sold it. And I got enough use for just the backhoe to pay for the whole machine. I don’t see very many people that actually own a backhoe saying not to buy them. I wouldn’t trade my well used 2200 hour commercial ZTR for a new homeowner grade one.

 

[rgr33]

Two thoughts from me

That Ford 1920 is a real decent tractor that will do the work you are needing it for in the future. If your budget allows it, it would be a good first tractor for you.

I say first tractor, because as time goes by, and finances improve, you are going to see that a hydrostatic is the way to go, and maybe a bit more power.
This is a story told by many of us here, our first tractor, was a just a test flight on our way to a better tractor.

 

[woolyAcres]

Two thoughts from me
I say first tractor, because as time goes by, and finances improve, you are going to see that a hydrostatic is the way to go, and maybe a bit more power.
This is a story told by many of us here, our first tractor, was a just a test flight on our way to a better tractor.

This has been my experience too. My first real tractor was what I could afford- YM240D great machine; easy to work on and affordable. It lacked power steering and didn't have the HP I really wanted but it got a number of things done around here. Finances improved a bit, jobs I really needed to perform came into better focus, and a good deal came along. I was able to sell that machine for more than I paid for it- after having done a number of improvements to it), and put that money toward a newer/larger/more appropriate-for-me machine.

In my case, first tractor was never going to be my last tractor.

 

[JasperFrank]

My Grandfather had a farm in Maryland and all sorts of tractors from a little Farm-all to a, now called "Mid-sized," John Deer. All of these were '50's to early '70's model tractors and all of them were geared. Greared worked on the farm as it was relatively flat, well cleared, as in old, farm land. You picked your gear, and then its a long run till you have to turn around back to doing another long run. The learning curve was steep, as each had different HPs, meaning different gearings for different tasks. And I even learned the fine art of double clutching, when switching gears on the road pulling hay wagons. When I moved out to the Pacific Northwest and got my own 20 ac tree farm, I looked long and hard for a suitable tractor. At first I looked at geared tractors cause that was what I was used to. Looked at a lot of now considered, "antique" tractors. People wanted way too much money for these, as they had become, Collectable," and most were not even three point hitch and and only two wheel drive. A neighbor friend said I should be looking for a
used modern, standardized, FWD, compact tractor with Hydrostatic Transmission. So I started looking at those, and it was my first experience with Hydrostatic. There was no going back. My land has many small hills, slops and narrow areas between trees. So lots of turning and forward and back and if on a geared tractor, lots of thinking about not stalling. These Hydrostaic tractors also seemed over priced in the used market, and crazy expensive if bought new, and crazy expensive to have serviced by a dealership. But I lucked out, as I found a 14 HP at PTO, compact tractor, hydrostatic, modern three point with a FEL and, box scrapper, and brush hog for $6500. What it needed was a fix to its front wheel drive, as that pinion gear was all chewed up due to lack of lubrication maintenance. And easy fix, though the dealership must have scared the **** out of the seller for the repair. I did the repair myself for about $300, and have used it for over 20 years, with the only other fix was having to re-core the radiator. For about $400. I did think that I needed a back-hoe for work on my property as I was building a new house on raw land. But the sub-contractors supplied their own equipment for that, for far less than if I had rented a back hoe to do the work my self. Since I do have the FEL, power steering is a must when that bucket is loaded with over 800 lbs of rocks. The property is fractured basalt with a three inch covering of clay. Can't even imagine what that would be like without power steering. I have a 1220 Ford and it is the last tractor I think I will ever need.

 

[nwut05]

Just my 2 cents worth but stay away from the chineese farm pro junk....just look at the reviews on northern tools site and service nightmares. i started with a mitsubishi 19 hp sold it and went o a new holland 24 hp sold it and went to a new holland t1510 geared tractor with loader...still own it just bought a bigger new holland for haying....i would look around a little bit and find a good used name brand tractor in the 24-35 hp range with loader and backhoe it would do all you ever need gears or not...at least until you get financially able to afford more. you could pick up a bush hog or a finish mower as money allows also. Another thing to look at is what dealers do you have close? is parts available by driving or would you have to order everything by the net? sounds like you have the skills necessary to work on the machine if you need to.... just be sure you don't buy a machine that needs a lot of work out of the gate because tractor parts are expensive. and it's easier to buy something working and fix as needed than buy something broke and not knowing where to start this is experience for you...if you do find a dealer make some friends there... because when you find a tractor... before you pull the trigger it may be worth going by and asking one of the mechanics or even a salesman to go with you and give it a once over.....what can it hurt a cup of coffee and slice of pie may just save you a lot of hard earned savings and foster a good future relationship....... but also on that note you may look at a tractor online and pay shipping on a name brand used unit cheaper than you find one up in the northeast but thats also buying blind and sometimes that can bite you big time.......whatever you come out with just listen to previous current and future advice no chineese makes allowed......another note and just fyi anything under say 35 hp needs to be 4wd especially with a loader and backhoe....

 

[mike69440]

Think used tractor. You could find something like a 2 or 3 year old Kubota B7510HST tractor with hydrostatic transmission, 4-ft wide FEL bucket, power steering that would cost $8-9K. Add $600 for a 4-ft brush hog rotary mower. If you're just mowing not-too-thick weeds, you can sharpen the mower blades (like you do for your riding mowers) and get a cut that makes your 3 acres look like a large lawn.

Good luck.

"You could find something like a 2 or 3 year old Kubota B7510HST tractor with hydrostatic transmission, 4-ft wide FEL bucket, power steering that would cost $8-9K."
If you can, buy it!
B7510 is a lot older than 3 years old.
And around New England, Kubotas brings a lot more unless it does not have a loader.
Looks at a late model private sale Kioti or a Mitsubishi built Mahindra (gear versions are nice), Bransen, etc if you want ok. quality at lower price. Estate sales, divorce forced sales etc. on Craig's list a good place to look. Good deals go very fast.
You seem handy and ought to be able to fix theses basically sound machines.

 

[AndyMA]

I started this post under "new holland" but then realized from a post that my question may be way more basic then if a model is good or not.

After reading a post, maybe I should be asking a more basic question ... do I want a geared tractor?

Honestly ... didn't even think about this!

Having never had a tractor, I didn't even think about shifting gears!

I know I would need to do this when I use the loader but do you shift while cutting grass or just leave it in one gear and go?

I have 3 acres .... longest run is say 250 ft .... then turn ... 250 ft ... turn .....

Is it like a truck .. would I need to downshift ... turn ... up shift?

I understand that you set the engine RPM's to get the PTO to 540 for the mower then it says there ... then do you just pick a gear (say 8th to set tractor speed to ???? mph) and cut at that speed?

Maybe I should be asking can you (or is it practical) to use the same tractor for a lawn mower and a bucket / back hoe tractor?

Backstory ....

Money is tight for us. My wife was paralyzed from the shoulders down in a diving accident when she was 12. I moved from SC to VT about 10 years ago when I met her as she has a job her and her health insurance is up here. I was originally from Canada but moved to SC in the 90's when I met a woman there. She passed way after 13 years of marriage.

Housing prices are very high here in Vermont. After looking at buying an old house and modifying it (wide doors, roll in shower, ...), we decided to build and are just finishing up building an accessible house. It took me 5 years ... I did much of the work myself even building my own elevator ($40K to buy one ... I got an old electric forklift and put it together for $2K). We even lived in an old RV onsite (froze when winter temps hit -30) for three years to save from paying rent.

My wife needs care every 4 hours so I work out of the house. I am a machinist by trade. With luck by next year I will have a shop to do work out of ... already poured the pad and will build next summer (my machines .. lathe, mill, welder, etc ... are in storage in a tractor trailer next to the house). Right now I do small repair work on just about anything (last week I repaired an electric drier and a tractor) and I build electrical control panels. Here is a link to my facebook page:

Vermont Country Workshop - Home | Facebook

Anyway ... lots of work still to do ... obviously I cut grass once a week (using a 12 year, 22 hp kohler, old 54" cub cadet I bought for $800 three years ago), I have two large piles of dirt still around the house ... lots of landscaping ... I need drainage ditches put in around the workshop, driveway is rough and I want to move it over a bit, even building the workshop I would use it to stand up the walls, ....

I had been hoping to stay around the $10,000 mark. With this tractor I would be say $12,000 ... a bit more then I wanted but I could just pull it off. All the other tractors I see are around $15K ... now we are definitely out of my budget.

So do I go for a geared tractor can I not use one tractor for everything or ????

I originally posted in the new holland area because I found a 1920 in good shape (picture below) ... bucket and backhoe (would need to buy a finish mower) .... 700 hours ... 1994 ... $11,500. I also saw a chinese made Farm Pro 2425 ... 2005 ... 2K hours ... bucket and backhoe (still would need to buy a finish mower) ... $8,500.

These are both gear units.

Thanks so much !!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

View attachment 577959

The 1920 is a great tractor. I had a 1710 & now have a 2120. The only think I'd be concerned would be prts availability. I had a back hoe on both tractors and wouldn't be without one

Andy