First tractor

Pete.Mitchell · Mar 9, 2022

Greetings! I’ve been perusing this forum for the past few months as a guest and finally decided to create an account and dive right in.
First things first. I’ve never owned a tractor before
I’ve been reading and reading on what type of machine would be most suitable for my family
We are looking for something to help us with developing and maintaining 20 acres homestead
primary uses would be post hole digging, light road cutting, garden prep, pallet lifting of up to roughly 36” high to load onto my trailer, ground cleanup, building dirt bike trails and jumps, etc.
so id likely mostly use a loader, forks, backhoe, rake, blade, post hole (and maybe a tiller if it’s capable of doing such)

It seems I’ve cornered myself into two options.
the heaviest/largest 25hp tractor I can find OR a higher HP pre emission tractor. I have absolutely zero interest in owning a machine with modern diesel emissions. I understand that more power may help me work quicker. But I’m not a commercial operation seeking to maximize revenue. I have time. I think I’d rather be a bit under powered than undersized

I thought I had my mind set on the Kubota L2501 HST but I also sometimes do a bit of analysis paralysis and fortunately that let me to a handful of other options (initially I thought it was only the kubota vs the JD 3025)
it appears that the Kioti CK2610 might in fact be a bit larger/heavier than the Kubota with a larger hydraulic and lift capacity. The motor appears to be a larger detuned one as well. I’ve seen some talk about being able to open them up a bit to reach 33hp (I’m a gear head haha). I also like the location of the loader controls compared to the more forward controls of the Kubota.

we have both a Kubota and a kioti dealer within 40 miles of us. Not much else within that radius.
I don’t intend to make this a kioti vs Kubota thread. Just trying to provide as much info as I can.
am I being unrealistic in the expectations of a 25hp tractor on 20 acres? The land is flat.
I’m not against a larger pre-emission tractor. I just hesitate on that as I don’t really know what to look for and don’t want to buy a junker
Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Rdrcr · Mar 9, 2022

On flat land, I believe the 25HP tractor can get the job done. It may be a little undersized on 20 acres but, that just means it’ll take you a little longer to accomplish your tasks.

I have a Kubota L2501 HST and highly recommend it for its simplicity, reliability and performance.
That said, you can’t go wrong with the Kioti and/or the JD or a whole host of other comparatively sized 25HP tractor options.

Mike

IndyJay · Mar 9, 2022

I bought a 34 HP tractor as my first and it was adequate for most of what I needed for maintaining 40 acres (20 rolling pasture, 20 wooded trails). I often ran into situations where it was too small (more accurately, too light) for some tasks. After 27 years I replaced it with a 45 HP last spring and wish I had done so many years ago. Not so much for the HP, but for the size and weight. You've probably already seen the posts regarding weight as being high on the list of considerations. Good advice there.

Welcome to the forum and good luck!

Milo · Mar 9, 2022

An L2501 or the newer L2502 (or Kioti 2610, Deere 3025E or D) would be fine for your application IMO. When I acquired adjoining property I changed from a Kubota B2650 to the L2501 and it did everything I needed which is about what you are interested in, other than I didn't buy a hoe for it. I just wasn't sure I'd have enough use for it given the rather large amount of money spent.

Pete.Mitchell · Mar 9, 2022

Milo said:
An L2501 or the newer L2502 (or Kioti 2610, Deere 3025E or D) would be fine for your application IMO. When I acquired adjoining property I changed from a Kubota B2650 to the L2501 and it did everything I needed which is about what you are interested in, other than I didn't buy a hoe for it. I just wasn't sure I'd have enough use for it given the rather large amount of money spent.

Yeah I’m on the fence about the hoe as well. Seems my money could be spent on other implements but I still go back and forth.
Side note: I just discovered that the bobcat CT2025 is essentially a rebadged CK so that at least expands my options of inventory a bit more. Apparently the Kubotas are months out right now locally.
I do think I’ll be content with a 25hp unit, I’ve just struggled to determine if the L2501 and CK2610 are in fact the heaviest of the 25hp options.

ovrszd · Mar 9, 2022

Good luck in your search. Try to not over think this. Start visiting dealer lots looking at everything they have in your size preference, new and used. Just sitting on a tractor can tell you more than all of us can. And being inexperienced I recommend operating any tractor before buying it. Depending on your dealers, they may let you take one home for a day.

hornett22 · Mar 9, 2022

Pete.Mitchell said:
Greetings! I’ve been perusing this forum for the past few months as a guest and finally decided to create an account and dive right in.
First things first. I’ve never owned a tractor before
I’ve been reading and reading on what type of machine would be most suitable for my family
We are looking for something to help us with developing and maintaining 20 acres homestead
primary uses would be post hole digging, light road cutting, garden prep, pallet lifting of up to roughly 36” high to load onto my trailer, ground cleanup, building dirt bike trails and jumps, etc.
so id likely mostly use a loader, forks, backhoe, rake, blade, post hole (and maybe a tiller if it’s capable of doing such)

It seems I’ve cornered myself into two options.
the heaviest/largest 25hp tractor I can find OR a higher HP pre emission tractor. I have absolutely zero interest in owning a machine with modern diesel emissions. I understand that more power may help me work quicker. But I’m not a commercial operation seeking to maximize revenue. I have time. I think I’d rather be a bit under powered than undersized

I thought I had my mind set on the Kubota L2501 HST but I also sometimes do a bit of analysis paralysis and fortunately that let me to a handful of other options (initially I thought it was only the kubota vs the JD 3025)
it appears that the Kioti CK2610 might in fact be a bit larger/heavier than the Kubota with a larger hydraulic and lift capacity. The motor appears to be a larger detuned one as well. I’ve seen some talk about being able to open them up a bit to reach 33hp (I’m a gear head haha). I also like the location of the loader controls compared to the more forward controls of the Kubota.

we have both a Kubota and a kioti dealer within 40 miles of us. Not much else within that radius.
I don’t intend to make this a kioti vs Kubota thread. Just trying to provide as much info as I can.
am I being unrealistic in the expectations of a 25hp tractor on 20 acres? The land is flat.
I’m not against a larger pre-emission tractor. I just hesitate on that as I don’t really know what to look for and don’t want to buy a junker
Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Kioti all day long. Wouldn't even consider the Kubota. Only tractor I'd consider over the Kioti is the Mahindra 1626 because it Japan built and in my opinion, has a much better backhoe mounting setup.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti Kubota, I just don't think you get much for your money in these smaller machines.

John Deere is a definite no for me. I'm not interested in a tractor with an aluminum rear axle housing and plastic body panels, their seats have always been junk. Not to mention their business practices in general.

The Kubota and John Deere don't offer shuttle shift either.

By the way, I have 28 acres and not not all flat. Not at all.

bdhsfz6 · Mar 9, 2022

FWIW, in my case, I bought my 25 acres spread 42 years ago. It's 10 acres of woodland and the rest former pasture & groomed lawn. My first tractor was a Kubota B7100 HST with FEL and backhoe. I used that little 19 HP machine for over 20 years doing all that needed to be done including the excavation for my house & barn.

In 1998, due to an adjacent property owner dispute, I was forced to assume the maintenance of a 1.25 mile private road leading to my acreage. Although the little B7100 was able to do most of the work, it was pitifully slow. Since then, I've moved up to a 25, 30, 34 and now a 60 HP tractor. The larger machine is much faster at doing the same work and a lot more comfortable on these old bones.

My point is, if you have the time, a 25HP tractor will do all the work you describe. At some point, you may decide your time is more valuable. If that happens, you can always trade up like I did. If you take care of your equipment, it will hold a good deal of it's value.

Other than the distance to the nearest dealer, I don't think the brand of tractor you choose is all that important. Parts & service availability both now and in the future are the biggest concerns. It seems many dealers today change brands as often as I change my socks.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your choice!

Thomas · Mar 9, 2022

Welcome to TBN Pete.

Not sure if you live in snow region,if you do may want to consider winter task.
Visit dealer see if they let you take test spin models 30-40 hp.

ljjhouser · Mar 9, 2022

My tractor is the first and only one I will own. Not knowing much about tractors when I bought, and learning as I go, I have learned several facts about buying a first tractor.
1. DO NOT get a tractor that is too small for what you want to do.
2. Whatever you want on the tractor (remotes etc), it is best to get it when you purchase your tractor from the dealer.
3. Buy any brand YOU like, regardless of color. You are the one that has to live with your choice.
4. Weight matters. Make sure it is heavy enough to do what you want. CONSIDER ballast in the tires from the beginning.
5. Get a tractor with tires that match your intended use.
6. If you want implements, try to make some of them part of a package deal from the dealer when you buy the tractor. Usually cheaper.
7. I also believe, if you don't like the dealer, you probably soon won't like the tractor.
8. Remember, a tractor is like a computer. When someone asks What are you going to do with it" you may give them one answer, but it will need to do any task you come up with. Example - I use our tractor to lift the roof trusses to the top when I built the tractor shed.

I like to feel like my tractor is like my dog, one of my best friends. Best Wishes.

OH almost forgot, WELCOME to TBN.

Pete.Mitchell · Mar 9, 2022

Thanks for the feedback and welcomes so far!
I agree on some of the above. JD wasn’t even on my radar I just remember my initial research led me to choosing them vs Kubota. Since then I’ve discovered how much further my dollar will go (for now) on one of the alternatives.
I have no brand loyalty. I don’t care the color. I just want something reliable that will work when I need.
I figure the heavier the better and it looks like I’m on the right path!
Also many thanks for the dealership/shopping suggestions.

I’ll look into the Mahindra unit as well

azbinder · Mar 9, 2022

I see that you are considering a tiller. I would highly recommend an HST tractor for this as is is so much easier to control your ground speed. Also, try to go with the "reverse" till style. It will do a lot better job of breaking up the ground and leaves smoother seed bed.

TractorTYMe · Mar 9, 2022

Check out if you happen to have a Branson dealer close to you? They use Kukje engines (License made Cummins A-series) that is mechanical injection. TYM T264 uses a 3 cyl IDI same as Bransons.

jeff9366 · Mar 9, 2022

I’ve never owned a tractor before.

We are looking for something to help us with developing and maintaining 20 acre homestead

Am I being unrealistic in the expectations of a 25hp tractor on 20 acres? The land is flat.

What is your altitude? 25-horsepower at sea level is not 25-horsepower at 5,000 feet altitude.

I usually recommend more weight and more horsepower for twenty acres, but you have said you have plenty of time.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is worse than depreciation on a tractor.

Will all twenty acres be actively worked with your tractor?

primary uses would be post hole digging, light road cutting, garden prep, pallet lifting of up to roughly 36” high to load onto my trailer, ground cleanup, building dirt bike trails and jumps, etc.
so id likely mostly use a loader, forks, ~~backhoe~~, rake, blade, post hole and maybe a ~~tiller~~.

A <26-horsepower tractor can accomplish all your specified tasks, including roto-tilling.

I think a digging toothbar attached to your FEL bucket would eliminate the need for a $5,000 backhoe. A digging toothbar will also "spade" land for a kitchen garden, so a $3,000 roto-tiller may be struck from your list.

The Kubota LA525 FEL will lift 1,400 pound pallets to 36". Is 1,400 pounds enough loading capacity?

It seems I’ve cornered myself into two options.
1) the heaviest/largest 25hp tractor I can find.

25-horsepower can be limiting running power hungry PTO powered implements, with snow blowers and rotary cutters / Bush Hogs being two of the primary power hungry PTO implements.

2) A higher HP pre emission tractor. I have absolutely zero interest in owning a machine with modern diesel emissions.

Tier IV emission standards phased in from 2009 - 2013. Are you interested in a 9 to 15 year old tractor as a tractor neophyte? Do you buy 9 to 15 year old road vehicles?

we have both a Kubota and a kioti dealer within 40 miles of us. Not much else within that radius.

Consider its an 80 mile round trip to either dealer and you have to make a delivery trip and a retrieval trip totaling 160 miles......

The Kioti CK2610 might be a bit larger/heavier than the Kubota with a larger hydraulic and lift capacity. I’ve just struggled to determine if the L2501 and CK2610 are in fact the heaviest of the 25hp options.

YES. In the field they are equivalent in capability.
Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

The ergonomics of the operator's stations on the brands under consideration will be far more important to you during hundreds of hours in the seat than minor weight difference on <26-horsepower tractors.

Pete.Mitchell · Mar 9, 2022

Thanks for the detailed reply Jeff.
we are at ~6000ft elevation. The land is flat, I don’t plan on rotary cutting nor snow blowing.
we do get the occasional snow but nothing crazy and it typically melts within a day or two. I wasn’t planning on utilizing the rig for snow related activities
The toothbar is a great idea. The more you all discuss these things the more it doesn’t make sense for me to spend so much money on the backhoe.
As far as used vehicles vs used tractors…I do in fact buy 9-15 year old road vehicles.
both of the vehicles in my carport are 2005 and 2006 Toyotas with 175k and 215k miles and I’d take either one on a road trip tomorrow. But I know automobiles. I don’t mind wrenching.
I simply don’t “know” tractors. Hence my lean toward going new and lower HP vs 10+ years old
As far as distance. It’s 25 minutes just to get to town. So I’ve gotta make that kind of journey for any supplies needed.
Cheers

Torvy · Mar 9, 2022

The Branson 2515 is one of the largest (maybe the largest) 25 HP CUT in the US. Just under 3000 lbs without added weights

Pete.Mitchell · Mar 9, 2022

Torvy said:
The Branson 2515 is one of the largest (maybe the largest) 25 HP CUT in the US. Just under 3000 lbs without added weights

Wow. That 2515h looks like it has some promising specs.
time for me to get back to reading haha.
thanks for the suggestion!

Edit: looks like not a single dealer in my state.

jeff9366 · Mar 9, 2022

We are at ~6000 ft elevation. The land is flat.

Your 25-horsepower tractor engine will produce, at best, only 21.5 horsepower at 6,000 feet. I believe you will be unhappy with 14% less power in the weight category under consideration. Elevation versus power should be a prime topic in discussions with your potential tractor dealers.

I suggest a turbocharged engine for mile high work.

Will all twenty acres be actively worked with your tractor?

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR

Pete.Mitchell · Mar 9, 2022

I won’t be working all 20 acres.
There doesn’t seem to be any 25hp tractors with a factory turbo
I got excited when I saw the new Massey 1835 has a turbo but it also has DPF. Most of the Massey units are DOC only. However the 1835 and 1840 have DPF and DOC.
so then I checked Mahindra as they seem to be the other main brand with a DOC only emissions system.
unfortunately all the way up thru 40hp they too are naturally aspirated.
I may still look at the Mahindra 1635 and 1640. They are the same size as the 1626 but offer up to 38hp.
i do also wonder if it’ll really make much difference as the 25hp one can easily enough be tuned for ~33hp

Rdrcr · Mar 9, 2022

^^^^^
Not trying to throw too many curveballs at you with your first tractor purchase but, this is going on my simple, mechanical diesel Kubota L2501;