Fixing Cracks in a Backhoe - Big ! with pics

[john_bud]

Thingy (and others),

I feel bad that there is some animosity during side discussions on welding technique that may have been started when I mentioned that I move the pieces such that I am welding down. NOTICE: I never said downHILL, I said down. Here's a picture of what I (a non-professional welder with little to no formal training and even less understanding of the industry jargon) means by welding "down".



Notice in the top pictures the weld fillet is on a side hill where the one on the bottom the weld fillet is straight down. All I do is rotate the work piece into that positon. The direction the gun travels is pure horizontal. I do it so the weldment does not drip off when I am really jacking the power to it. The welder can go up to 250 amps at 26 or 28 volts, so it can actually burn thru the verticle piece. Moving it like this reduces that tendency when I am going for full penetration. I can do the welding with the direction of gun travel moving uphill or downhill, I prefer that it is dead flat. I can also weld on a side wall or on an overhead position -- but I prefer that it is dead flat down. So, I move it to be that way if at all possible. If not possible, I weld where it is.

Now back to the hoe.....

I decided to patch in the broken parts of the cutting edge. I had some 1/2 inch steel, but the cutting edge is 5/8th. So, after welding it in I had to weld over the top of the patch (inside bucket portion) to make it the same height. The welder was at 395 ipm, 24.1 volts and 160 amps for those that may wonder about those things.

Here are pictures of the broken areas on the bucket. Outside bucket view and inside bucket view.



I cut the jagged parts off and made some patches to fit the holes. Here they are tacked down.




Here they are as welded.





and with the extra bead ground off.





And here is the inside view after welding and grinding to match the bucket edge bevel. NOTE: I did have the bucket and the patch pieces chamfered down so there was about 1/4 of the thickness unground. There were also some fairly large gaps that had to be filled.




Yeah, it's not perfect, still needs more grinding to be totally flat and indistinguishable from a new edge, but at least it should be able to attach a tooth in those locations now. Before, I don't think that was possible.

jb

 

[thingy]

John,,you'll get these side things going,,,don't let it bother you a bit,nothing I said was meant for you,,just talking in general terms there,,,so,,you went with mig,,I woulda to if I was you,,after all you welded every thing else with mig,,,,,you understand what most back yard welders don't,,gotta turn it up,,,now don't turn it up more than you can handle,,quality of weld and all,you don't gotta blow a hole in side to not get cold lap,,etc,,,,you are doing a fine job,,and don't get me wrong,,,you can make a good mig weld on heavy stuff,,said it several times,,its just you gotta understand,,and you do,,its about the welder more than anything else,,,side things happen in any disscusion,,has nothing to do with the job you're doing,,,cause,you are doing good,,hope I've helped some,,but I ain't no expert,,nobody is in this stuff,,,,,,when you get done it would be nice to see pictures of dirt being dug,,[nice if they was a few rocks to],,,
think about using your machine in the flux core mode next time you ever do something like this,,,its just more better,make it easy on your self any time you can,,
you got the machine to handle .045 flux core wire,,,some don't,,,just gotta figure out the details,,would go with a duel shield set up,,,you already got about all the equipement you would need,,,,,,thingy

 

[JimR]

Nice job John. You really have to love those mig welders. They are so clean and easy to use, especially with gas. My Lincoln 175 Plus is a sweet running machine. I use that for just about everything now, even aluminum. I mentioned in another post that I welded up my original toothbar with 6013 rod. I stand corrected. I used 7014 rod to make that toothbar.

 

[connomx]

Thingy, We're really close to total agreement. I said I can't weld down as well as I can weld up. I'm absolutely not implying that you or anyone else cannot weld equally well in either direction. I am saying that one can convince themselves that their downhill welds are better than they really are. I've watched many welders in the nuclear plant where I work weld in all directions on carbon steel and stainless up to 3" wall thickness. I've seen stick, tig, mig, sub-arc, & motorized mig all used at one time or another. I know downhill welding is preferred by some of the very best welders. I have no reason to believe that you are not one of the very best. Anybody that can lay under a pipe in the mud, rain, snow, freezing weather, blazing sun, and consistantly produce xray welds, must be pretty darned good.

John Bud, Guaranteed - no animosity or criticism-just spirited discussion. MikeD74T

 

[thingy]

Mike,deleted my last two messages to you,,I see you for what you are now,,don't write me anymores,,,thingy

 

[JimR]

Now lets be civil boys. This is supposed to be a "HELP FORUM" not a fighting ring.

 

[thingy]

Jim,you're right. thingy

 

[john_bud]

Rant Mode On ---


OK, I have heard how flux core wire is better than bare wire mig and how stick welding is better than either. Can't say as that's understandable, but nobody would call me an expert! HOWEVER...

My hoe and tractor and bucket have been welded on by at least 3 people other than myself in the last 43 years. Going back to the Ford FACTORY, the slag from the initial build of the hoe was not chipped off. Nearly all of the welds that are in areas that can't be seen, like under the supports and under the top deck were all covered with slag and factory paint over the slag. The hoe has been repaired (a lot) and many repairs were done with multiple passes and no chipping. When grinding the cra-p out the slag is plain to see in the weld. Many of these repairs were cracked as you would expect. All were full of oil from years of use, which made a decent repair hard. Now I bought a 36" bucket from an old JD 310 and had it bushed to fit the ford. The bucket had a cutting edge replaced by the prior owner. I ground off some of the snittier welds and found that I had to chip slag first! I repaired the busted out areas of the cutting edge and found more slag in the areas surrounding. Now I have found that the bucket liner was welded to the sides and (you guessed it) the frigging slag is still there!

Does ANYONE chip off the slag???? Once the slag has been chipped, the newly exposed welds are seen to be of extremely poor quality. The slag isn't just jumping off and I am only able to get it off with a chisel. So, have ordered a needle scaler from HF to help get this stuff off.

So, if stick and flux core is so good, why does it seem that nobody is able to chip off the slag and make a decent weld?

Rant mode Off ---

jb

 

[JimR]

I have never had a problem removing slag off of stick welded joints. I do it as soon as it starts to cool down. The slag has always popped off right away or within a minute or so after welding. I've never left it on for longer that what it takes to use up a rod. I would use one rod and chip away. Then continue on welding. I'm not a pro welder either. So maybe one of the Pro's can explain why the slag doesn't come off if it is left on too long.

 

[thingy]

Well there you go john,,,slag wasn't cleaned off,,if slag wasn't cleaned off between passes,,than paint,oil and rust might not be cleaned off either,before first welding,,prep of weld area,and proper cleaning is just as important as quality of weld put down,,one won't happen with out the other,,,,,mig,,its even more important than stick or flux core,,cold lap,,lack a fusion,,,,,its all about the welder,,,,,like I said,,better to have a decent mig weld,,than a crappy stick weld,,has nothing to do about process generally,,has to do with how you do it,,,thingy