FLAIL Mower ID

[LD1]

Picked up a 6' flail mower off C-list this morning. Guy said he thinks its a Mott but was unsure.

There is no identification on it anywhere.

It needs a bearing replaced on the cutter shaft. In the last picture, it is the bearing under the pulley on the right. Doesnt look like it is going to be too challenging :thumbsup:

Also needs a tractor side PTO-shaft. It is missing because it was broke. But he gave me a complete second pto shaft off a bushhog or something. He has been using it with the flail but the side he has been hooking to the tractor is just a smooth bore hole (no splines) designed for a shear pin. His old 9n had a hole in the PTO he was just running a bolt throught it there:confused2:

So for sure, it needs a bearing and at least a yoke, possible the half on the tractor side for the PTO.

$150 brought it home. So how do you think I did?? And does anyone know a Make/model of the beast?

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Not sure on the model. For a buck and a half I would say it a great deal.

Bill

 

[leonz]

Picked up a 6' flail mower off C-list this morning. Guy said he thinks its a Mott but was unsure.

There is no identification on it anywhere.

It needs a bearing replaced on the cutter shaft. In the last picture, it is the bearing under the pulley on the right. Doesnt look like it is going to be too challenging :thumbsup:

Also needs a tractor side PTO-shaft. It is missing because it was broke. But he gave me a complete second pto shaft off a bushhog or something. He has been using it with the flail but the side he has been hooking to the tractor is just a smooth bore hole (no splines) designed for a shear pin. His old 9n had a hole in the PTO he was just running a bolt throught it there:confused2:

So for sure, it needs a bearing and at least a yoke, possible the half on the tractor side for the PTO.

$150 brought it home. So how do you think I did?? And does anyone know a Make/model of the beast?

Ah, its a Mott and it has 4 rows of grass slicers on D hangers; send the pictures to flailmaster and they will help you with parts .

Just be sure to order 2 bearings and seals for the rotor not one.

 

[LD1]

Ah, its a Mott and it has 4 rows of grass slicers on D hangers; send the pictures to flailmaster and they will help you with parts .

Just be sure to order 2 bearings and seals for the rotor not one.

Seals were not evident???

I got the main shaft out. And yes, 4 rows on D hangers.

But there was just a bearing on each end with a metal shield on the insides (no seal) and a cap pn the outside with grease fittings.

And yes, I will probabally replace BOTH bearings. Other than that, everything appears good:thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

Just did some searching on flailmaster.com

This mower has 3-bolt bearing cages on the ends.

Similar to PN's M702408 and M702409
Mower Parts

But it appears they sell them as an ASSEMBLY for $100:confused2:

The bearings DO come out of the housings. The one housing is not in good shape, but I will either re-use it or make my own before I spend $100 on one.

And the bearings ARE different sizes as well. The DRIVE side bearing is a 62mm OD, 28.5mm ID, I cannot find any info for this?? The Non-drive side is a 62mm x 30mm bearing, which is a common 206/6206 bearing:thumbsup:

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Have you checked your local farm store for the bearings. The Farm and Fleet near me carries 3 bolt flange bearings similar to what you are looking for. That is where I got the rotor bearings for my lawn genie. They measured 1 15/16 id. The od really doesn't matter as long as the holes in the flange match up.
Bill

 

[LD1]

Have you checked your local farm store for the bearings. The Farm and Fleet near me carries 3 bolt flange bearings similar to what you are looking for. That is where I got the rotor bearings for my lawn genie. They measured 1 15/16 id. The od really doesn't matter as long as the holes in the flange match up.
Bill

No I havent checked them yet. But all we have is a TSC and they usually dont have much in the way of bearings.

Right now, I am having toruble finding the bearings online

It appears there are 3 peices that make up the bearing.
1. the housing itself like # 2 in this diagram at the bottom MONTAGE ENTERPRISES - MOTT FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES, ALAMO FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES (which could probabally be replaced)

2. The roller bearing itself (both sides need replaced)

3. The outer housing with the grease fitting similar to PN 700739 on this page http://flailmaster.com/products/products_search.aspx (which is broke on the pully side of this mower)


Flailmasters website shows the ENTIRE unit, for ~$100, but it looks like a 2 peice unit. Mine is a 3-peice. They will probabally work, but I dont want to spend that kind of money if I can just buy the bearings.

Which leads me to the next dilema. the NON-pully side bearing is just a 6206/206 bearing. 30mmID and 62mm OD.

BUT the pulley side has the same 62mm OD, but the shaft is 1-1/8":confused2: I cannot find this bearing ANYWHERE online. It's hard to believe alamo/mott us a 1-off odd sized bearing:confused2: I wished flailmaster listed the dimensions of the bearings on their website That way I could actually confirm what I have.

It just sucks because it is driving me nuts and there is nothing I can do until tomorrow when they are open and I can call them:confused2: I can make the inner housings for next to nothing. It is just a smooth more that the bearing presses into, it has a shoulder, and a 3-bolt thin flange. If bearings are a standard size, ~$10 each. But I need to see if I can find the outer housing somewhere. It looks like it was just cast iron and also has a 3-bolt flange. It's hard to describe, and none of the pics online look like they are exactally right. I will try to take some photos when I get home this evening.

 

[williamemack]

X2 Yeah, it is a Mott for sure. They are now sold by the Alamo Group. Yours is for mowing grass. It will work on hay, but you'll have to go a bit slower and it will not be as good with the woody stuff as the HD set up.

 

[LD1]

X2 Yeah, it is a Mott for sure. They are now sold by the Alamo Group. Yours is for mowing grass. It will work on hay, but you'll have to go a bit slower and it will not be as good with the woody stuff as the HD set up.

That is the main reason I bought it is to cut grass. Mainly a little heavier stuff that bogs the RFM. I figure this will handle the 8"-12" stuff a little better than my RFM. I didnt buy it to replace my bushhog:thumbsup:

That is ofcourse if I keep it. I kinda have a habit of buying implements in need of repair/paint, then fixing them up, and usually have no trouble making a couple hundred more than I have invested on c-list. And most importantly, it gives me projects to do in the shop which I enjoy much more than just sitting around with nothing to do.

 

[LD1]

Pictures of the bearing setup as promised.:thumbsup:

The first one is of the non-pulley side. It is just a standard 206/6206 bearing which I already have one. No problem.

Second is of the pulley side. I dont know if you can make it out, but the peice on the left is the housing. There isnt much lip left that the bearing seats into compared with the other side. But I can make this part for next to nothing:thumbsup:

The broken peice on the right is like the cap on the other side only it has a hole through it for the shaft to protrude for the pulley. Obviously needs replaced. But If too $$$ I can make this as well out of some 1/4" steel and a 90 degree grease fitting:thumbsup:

But the bearing is my issue now. The shaft is ~ 28.40mm diameter (just under 1-1/8"), and the housing bore is 62mm like the other side. All my searching I cannot seem to find a bearing this size.

Hopefully flailmaster will be able to come through with just a bearing. Because I am NOT going to spend $100 for the whole hub assembly. It is just puzzling why they used a b@$t@rd sized bearing:confused2: The bearing did NOT spin on the shaft and chew it up either if that is what you are thinking. The shaft is true and I even confirmed with the ID of the pulley:confused2:

Suggestions are always welcome

 

[fluggies4]

The model of this Mott mower is F6, made in the 1960's. The bearings are shown as the same on both sides...Mott part number 000506, OEM number is JAF87506.
The broken grease flange is Mott part number 101028, but is no longer available as far as I can see.

As for the original bearing measurements, the OD is 62mm, ID is 30mm., so maybe your cuttershaft has worn down on one side. The bearings have a steel dust shield on one side and are open on the other. The center race protrudes out on the dust shield side

 

[LD1]

The model of this Mott mower is F6, made in the 1960's. The bearings are the same on both sides...Mott part number 000506, OEM number is JAF87506.
The broken grease flange is Mott part number 101028, but is no longer available as far as I can see.

As for the original bearing measurements, the OD is 62mm, ID is 30mm., so maybe your cuttershaft has worn down. The bearing has a steel dust shield on one side and is open on the other. The center race protrudes out on the dust shield side

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The center race DOES protrude, but it is a non issue as I will just use a spacer to take up the endplay and a standard 206 bearing as I mentioned.

BUT both sides are NOT the same. The shaft is NOT worn. Actually, what was left of the inner race on the pully side was still a pressed fit, and the ID of the pulley itself is only 28.40mm. So I dont see how if the shaft wore, that the pully got smaller:confused2:

 

[fluggies4]

Hmmm, well I have the original parts book, and have two of the bearings in stock...so don't know...maybe through the years it has been altered. I don't have a pulley, so can't help with that measurement.

 

[LD1]

Hmmm, well I have the original parts book, and have two of the bearings in stock...so don't know...maybe through the years it has been altered. I don't have a pulley, so can't help with that measurement.

Just curious as to what company you work for????

And do you show a PN for the hub that the bearing presses into? and is it still avaliable?

I think what I may end up doing is going with a 6007 bearing which is 35mm x x62mm. So the OD will fit the bore, but the ID will be larger. And then I will make a press fit bushing that has the 28.4mm ID and a 35mm OD. And I can always make the grease flange.

I have a call in to flailmaster, so we will see what they say?

 

[fluggies4]

The bearing cage number is 000505 and is still available either from Alamo, or other suppliers. I use Montage Enterprises, and they list it.

I work for Maritime Farm Supply in New Brunswick, Canada. We sold those old Mott mowers for many years, starting in 1963, and still supply parts.

David

 

[LD1]

The bearing cage number is 000505 and is still available either from Alamo, or other suppliers. I use Montage Enterprises, and they list it.

I work for Maritime Farm Supply in New Brunswick, Canada. We sold those old Mott mowers for many years, starting in 1963, and still supply parts.

David

I got a call in to montage as well.

That cage you are talking about, is it the same as MT 700736 in this link

MONTAGE ENTERPRISES - MOTT FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES, ALAMO FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES

And they dont post prices on their website. So I am waiting for a call back. Do you know about what that cage costs. Any more than about $20 and I'll just make one. I could even re-use the old one if I had to. When the bearing blew, the shaft was wobbling around inside and darn near wore the shoulder off the inside. But it didnt chew up any part of the shaft that the bearing rides on. Like I said, the inner race of the bearing was still firmly pressod on the shaft. The shoulder on the shaft BEHIND the bearing is what chewed up the shoulder in the cage.

 

[LD1]

kinda funny, I just googled "alamo 000505" and the first result was an excel list of alamo part numbers and priceing.

that 000505 WAS listed as "rotor shaft bearing cage" and for a price of $138:confused2:

Google

 

[fluggies4]

The current Alamo list for 000505 is $138.35. The last Montage list I have was $73.60, but that is a couple of years old.
I don't currently have a 700736 in stock...it is for #102792 bearing, which is the same OD as the 000506...possibly it might work, don't know...but there's got to be something different about it.

 

[LD1]

The current Alamo list for 000505 is $138.35. The last Montage list I have was $73.60, but that is a couple of years old.
I don't currently have a 700736 in stock...it is for #102792 bearing, which is the same OD as the 000506...possibly it might work, don't know...but there's got to be something different about it.

Well, even @ $73 a pop, I will either re-use mine or make a new one. Definatally NOT worth $73 to me. Nothing fancy about it at all. Simple to make with a lathe:thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

UPDATE, I just recievend an e-mail back from flailmaster.

The mower is a Mott 72 fine cut:thumbsup: good to know.

However, they were not able to help with the bearing issues. Like fluggies4 said, she is also saying that the bearings should be the same and she believes someone tampered with the origional setup. The replacement parts ARE the ones I was looking at, but with the 30mm bore, they wouldn't even work.

I have been around mechanics and machining long enough to know when something has been modified and to know when a bearing spins and chews a shaft up. The bearing did NOT spin. And The ONLY way for this to have been modified would have been to cut the end of the shaft off and weld on a new stub shaft, and that is not evident. Not to mention, someone at sometime MUST have sold a 28.4mm x 62mm bearing:confused2: Because the inner race and the outer race of the bearing that "blew" confirms this. As well as the pully diameter.

If someone tampered with this, they ALSO would have had to weld the bore of the pulley up, and turn it back out to match the smaller diameter, and re-cut the keyway. Unlikely. Unless the shaft origionaly had a step to it that they turned smaller, in which case, they STILL came up with the 28.4mm ID bearing:confused2:

If I wanted to be able to use the replacement hub that they sell for $100, I would have to
1. Weld up the shaft
2. Turn to 30mm
3. re-cut the keyway
4. Bore the pulley out to 30mm
5. And broach a new keyway in it

I think I am just going to make a new "cage", use a 6007 (35mm x 62mm) bearing and bush it down to 28.4mm, and make a new cap with grease fitting. It will only cost me ~$10 for the bearing and a little time in the shop machining parts:thumbsup: