Fleetguard air filter - sad to say.....

[Bigfoot62]

I don't know who makes Motorcraft oil filters but they seem decent quality. Usually all I will buy.

Pretty sure that Purolator makes those.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Teampryor and Sixdogs,
Agree that the NAPA filters are way overpriced. I like WIX filters, but refuse to pay NAPA's price to get them.

As I posted above, I buy the K&N air filters for my pickups. (from AutoZone) Buy one, and you're done. Wash, dry, oil, and use it again.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Until recently, I have been using all Fleetguard filters on my goat... have been trying to find a Caterpillar filter part # to replace the Fleetguard oil filter.. Will start using the Baldwin fuel filter when I get the Cat secondary filter head installed.

??? If you don't like Fleetguard filters, then don't bother trying to find the CAT equivalent. Fleetguard makes the CAT filters.

 

[Pops15]

It's hard to know who or what to believe anymore on filters. I have used K&N filters on cars/trucks, only to have them bashed by the dealer and others for a higher micron (pass rate?) than oem paper filter. Yes they allow more air in but allegedly more dirt too? Hard to believe...Equally hard to believe is that Kubota would put in a manual that air filters should be allowed to get pretty dirty, as they filter "better" when dirty. Huh? Shouldn't a product meet its best spec when new? I changed the air filter on an older Kubota diesel mower, and got chewed out by my brother in law, who is pretty knowledgeable, that the "new" filter wasn't as good as what was in there. I told him he was nuts and he had the last laugh when I looked up the manual entry.

For whatever reason, probably not a good one, I have always thought oil filter quality was more critical than air. So I never bought the cheap Frams, only the Tough Guards, and then over time, moved to Mobil 1, K&N and Purolator Pure One. Like most of you, I've never had a failure either. (correction: a Wix fuel filter on an outboard motor fell apart internally when the primer bulb was used too energetically) Used Baldwin oil filters on my boat diesels and they were impressive filters.

Wix was always my go to filter when convenience counted; their possible decline in quality is not good to hear. Last time I bought the Napa equiv to Wix on an oil filter I paid fourteen bucks (for a little filter) and asked the guy if he made a mistake with the price. Nope. Well no more Napa if they are going to charge 30-40% more for nothing but convenience.

But then nothing was more expensive than a 60 dollar oem Kubota filter. I could not for the life of me figure out what was inside that filter to make it so expensive. When I got my new RTV400, its Subaru engine was so strange/unique that I ordered one complete set of filters just to be sure they'd be available. Nice to see they spec'd their normal oil filter, but some of the other filters were crazy expensive. I'd expect sixty bucks on a Komatsu dozer not my little sixteen hp one lunger.

Most of us would pay more if we were sure we were getting something, some extra performance, for more money spent. Just not sure we are and I wonder if too much of the product cost is going into paying for Super Bowl ads...

It's been proven in dirt track racing that a quality paper filter like Wix does a better job of filtering than K&N. While it's crucial to use a good oil filter, it's equally important to use a quality air filter in dusty conditions.

 

[brain55]

Teampryor and Sixdogs,
Agree that the NAPA filters are way overpriced. I like WIX filters, but refuse to pay NAPA's price to get them.

I do appreciate my master installer pricing at my Napa store even after I mark them up a little to my customers I'm still cheaper than what their list price for Joe Schmo is.

 

[sixdogs]

I'm thinking a switch to Baldwin filters for me. I cross-referenced some tractors and they had what I needed. Now to find a mail order dealer to check prices.

 

[3930dave]

I went with Wix air filters for my 7.3. Good media, well constructed, fit well.

If Penske still owns Fleetguard , I'm expecting/hoping that what I found was a one time aberration. The International dealer near here stocks Fleetguard and has great Parts Counter hours 4 nights a week. Very convenient if I happen to be in the area late, or suddenly need "something" in the middle of a minor maintenance task. I'm not ruling Fleetguard out, just yet, but will definitely be checking their air filters closely in the future.

Rgds, D.

 

[Bigfoot62]

I do appreciate my master installer pricing at my Napa store even after I mark them up a little to my customers I'm still cheaper than what their list price for Joe Schmo is.

Sad thing about our local NAPA store is that it was a locally owned "mom & pop" franchise until a few years ago. Back then, they were very competitive on prices, even to us "Joe Schmo's." ;D
Now, it's owned by a big company and the prices they charge are ridiculous. For example, the NAPA air filter for my Kenworth is $91. The Fleetguard filter, from the Kenworth dealer, is $35. (BTW, the CAT filter from the KW place doesn't even cost as much as the NAPA filter)

 

[Copperhead]

??? If you don't like Fleetguard filters, then don't bother trying to find the CAT equivalent. Fleetguard makes the CAT filters.

Might want to check with a Donaldson filter rep on that one. Donaldson is making Cat filters. Just had a discussion recently with the regional rep for Donaldson regarding another issue and the Cat filter thing came up. He verified that Donaldson is the supplier for Cat filters. As a side note, Deka / East Penn is the supplier for Cat Batteries. Same folks who make batteries for O'reillys and several other so-called "no name" brands. I have hauled their batteries, labeled as Cat, direct to Cat dealers.

I primarily use Wix and Donaldson on everything I own. I got burned on Fleetguard when I owned a Cummins ISX. They had serious issues and had to re-issue different filters a couple of times due to filters not performing properly with the ISX. I switched to Donaldson early on in that game and have not regretted it.

Baldwin has a fine reputation. If I didn't have one of the Donaldson or Wix available, I would have no problem throwing on a Baldwin. Regarding ownership of Fleetguard, the controlling interest ownership is Cummins.

 

[Copperhead]

Teampryor and Sixdogs,
Agree that the NAPA filters are way overpriced. I like WIX filters, but refuse to pay NAPA's price to get them.

As I posted above, I buy the K&N air filters for my pickups. (from AutoZone) Buy one, and you're done. Wash, dry, oil, and use it again.

I have always been amazed at Napa's pricing. The Napa gold line of filters are made by Wix, part numbers are interchangeable except for one number. You can get the very same Wix filter as a Napa gold at substantially lower price elsewhere than buying the Napa branded one in most cases.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Might want to check with a Donaldson filter rep on that one. Donaldson is making Cat filters. Just had a discussion recently with the regional rep for Donaldson regarding another issue and the Cat filter thing came up. He verified that Donaldson is the supplier for Cat filters. As a side note, Deka / East Penn is the supplier for Cat Batteries. . .

I don't know enough about that to argue the point.

My source was a local KW parts manager. Several years ago, he had toured the Fleetguard plant, and saw the CAT filters being made there. Who knows? Contracts can change. Or, perhaps, it's a case of some made here and some made there. ??? It's also possible that I was given bad information. (I doubt it, but possible)

I have always been amazed at Napa's pricing. The Napa gold line of filters are made by Wix, part numbers are interchangeable except for one number. You can get the very same Wix filter as a Napa gold at substantially lower price elsewhere than buying the Napa branded one in most cases.

It's the box. The NAPA box is worth a lot more.

Our problem around here is availability.
I have to drive for at least 20 miles to get to ANY parts house. NAPA is the only local parts house that carries WIX, and the only one that stocks filters for big trucks. It's about 55 miles to the closest KW dealer, and 70 to the Navistar. (in the opposite direction) The KW dealer carries CAT and Fleetguard filters. The Navistar dealer carries CAT and LuberFiner filters. An independent parts house, 50 miles in yet a different direction, carries Baldwin filters.

 

[daugen]

I ordered a Wix fuel filter online, have been trying a variety of fuel filters to compare; I like the ones you can see into.
And boy did I chuckle when I saw the country of origin. Times have changed for sure. Nice looking filter btw.

 

[3930dave]

Yep, many/most companies like to do the global sourcing shuffle fairly often.... keeping the peasants and the costs beat down is Job One for the beancounters. What it does to the product quality, esp. in the transitions.... well, that's one reason I started this thread. I for one, expect better from Fleetguard - good reminder to myself to frequently cross-check my assumptions !

The last Briggs carb parts I picked up were from Russia - no complaints so far. The former Soviet Union was often known for very robust (but usually not "pretty") mechanical engineering, and I've worked with some very sharp technical people who came from there.

In small engine (non Briggs) fuel filters, I've noticed a change in media density when a filter shifted to Russian production. That change affected the flow rate of the filter, but only because I was using it in a non-standard application. I can't say that the part was faulty, just that the "same" part was now different.

Things can change fast in terms of parts quality/parameters, that is one of the data sets that I hunt for on here, and elsewhere.

Caveat Emptor, always.

Rgds, D.

 

[Copperhead]

I really have no problem with stuff being made outside of U.S.

Case in point, my 2013 Freightliner Columbia glider truck. Two plants build these. One in Mexico, the other in N.Carolina. After delivery of mine, then the dealer mentioned which plant they have problems with. Mine was built in N.C. and the dealer had to spend an extra two weeks correcting problems the plant did wrong. The dealer then told me they hardly ever have issues with the Mexican built versions, but always have some issues with the N.C. built versions. Between the delays, parts not installed or installed improperly, replacement of parts (including two drive shafts and carrier bearing) that were not spec'd properly, etc, I was rapidly becoming rather cynical of any U.S. made stuff. It sure put a dent in the "buy American" slogan in my mind.

If billy bob in N.C. cannot pull his head out of his back side and worry about doing a quality job instead of worrying about Monday night football, bass fishing, and when it is Miller time, then Pedro in Mexico, who appreciates the job he has, will beat billy bob and the UAW in quality all day long. Sad to say, but when it cost me over $10,000 in lost revenue because of his mess up, I have absolutely no sympathy.

The suppliers provide the very same components to both plants. But Pedro can put it together better than Billy Bob in N.C. can. That can only show that the work ethic of Billy Bob needs to improve or he will be on the unemployment line. The UAW can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Gator6x4]

I really have no problem with stuff being made outside of U.S.

Case in point, my 2013 Freightliner Columbia glider truck. Two plants build these. One in Mexico, the other in N.Carolina. After delivery of mine, then the dealer mentioned which plant they have problems with. Mine was built in N.C. and the dealer had to spend an extra two weeks correcting problems the plant did wrong. The dealer then told me they hardly ever have issues with the Mexican built versions, but always have some issues with the N.C. built versions. Between the delays, parts not installed or installed improperly, replacement of parts (including two drive shafts and carrier bearing) that were not spec'd properly, etc, I was rapidly becoming rather cynical of any U.S. made stuff. It sure put a dent in the "buy American" slogan in my mind.

If billy bob in N.C. cannot pull his head out of his back side and worry about doing a quality job instead of worrying about Monday night football, bass fishing, and when it is Miller time, then Pedro in Mexico, who appreciates the job he has, will beat billy bob and the UAW in quality all day long. Sad to say, but when it cost me over $10,000 in lost revenue because of his mess up, I have absolutely no sympathy.

The suppliers provide the very same components to both plants. But Pedro can put it together better than Billy Bob in N.C. can. That can only show that the work ethic of Billy Bob needs to improve or he will be on the unemployment line. The UAW can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

I agree. It appear vehicles made in another country do not seem to have the "Monday & Friday" (Don't ever buy a new vehicle made on a Monday or Friday, we have all heard and been told this) problems of vehicles made in the US. The American worker of today seems to have different priorities when it comes to quality control.

 

[3930dave]

I'm with you there Copperhead:

"I really have no problem with stuff being made outside of U.S." , Providing the quality is there !

Some people are rabidly pro-union, some people are anti-union. There are some good points on both sides of these arguments.

Day to day, as consumers what we all need are quality parts/products that we can rely on, at a reasonable price.

Part of my sensitivity to geographic manufacturing issues comes from having worked in the electronic hardware sector. No sane person wants to do business with China/PRC if they have an alternative. Won't get ranting about electronics here, or will end up totally derailing the thread I started.

THE PROBLEM now a daze is that in many sectors, you have little or no choice BUT to deal with China.

I would prefer to give my scarce $ to companies that Manufacture the product in Canada/USA/Mexico, but not blindly so. I know people who are part of teams staffed at union auto plants here, that are on standby to work Fridays and Mondays, mostly because a significant # of other staff are too impaired to show up for work. Not just a problem at union plants, though I can see where the union protection can reinforce that type of problematic behaviour.

Providing the quality is there !

A buddy of mine consults on vehicle wiring nightmares. Brand new Class A RV, last year - turns out Ford had forgot to put the brake wires in. The completed RV was driven all the way from Louisiana to Ontario, Canada with no brake lights. It was a start of the year chassis manufacturing changeover, that had to travel to an out-of-the-way general service garage to find something that should have been caught A) on the truck chassis manufacturing line, or B) at the RV manufacturer in LA.

Given the will, and enough $, (and as described, no destructive union influence) most companies can set up a quality plant in most parts of the world. My last Briggs generator was built in PRC - I would have preferred domestically built, but at my present income level it was the best value for me - and I had enough confidence in Briggs as a company (to buffer the PRC factors) to place my $ on this unit.

IMO, the biggest manufacturing issue is the transition periods. Remember when the first few plants were set up in Mexico ? For many, teething problems happened, QC was spotty. Fast forward in time, quality comes up, or the plant gets shut down. Same cycle happens in most parts of the world.

I've lived long enough to watch the ongoing erosion of the middle class, and a lot of that is due to the manufacturing sector(s) being wiped out domestically. That is one of my motivations to Buy Local, providing the quality is there ! That said, personally I have no tolerance for a poor work ethic.

I don't/can't ignore price, but the first thing I look at is Quality, Manufacturer, then Country of Origin.

Gator - I was typing this while you were posting your comment. "Funny" we both mentioned Mon/Fri. , perhaps the domestic plants should only run Tuesday to Thursday ?

Rgds, D.

 

[sixdogs]

Recently I saw some retailing stats and only 49% of people had low price as their primary consideration on a new purchase. The other 51% had quality as number one. Seems like more people want quality over low price. Whatever, but I would pay more for quality and I will avoid a lack of quality no matter who made it.

 

[3930dave]

Time frame.

Some people don't or can't (hierarchy of needs) look at things long term. Many take the Bic lighter approach to buying things (Bic actually makes a good product.... but you catch my drift I'm sure....) and only look at immediate short term cost.

Total Cost of Ownership is what I usually look at. But, if you don't plan to own anything long term, many people figure "Why bother ? ".

You can go totally "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" on Quality, but being a simple guy I look at it as quality is price, just viewed long term.

Won't bother preaching to the choir here, as anybody who has spent time wrenching on anything (and stuck with it) learned pretty quickly - you can waste a great deal of time and money using inferior parts.

A big irritation for me is that in some sectors, the race to the bottom for price leaves very few (sometimes no) high quality options.

Then you either give up, or go all Jay Leno, and build it yourself ! :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.

 

[sw03]

In a air filter it does not bother me but plastic end caps/threads in a fuel, hydraulic, or oil filter just worries me. Especially when there are other good cost effective options.

Chris

But again, show me UOA's that says they are bad please. I do not care what the ends caps are made off if the UOA show they work better.

I have toyota oil filter that people RAVE about when the filter is crap. Napa oil filters are 1/2 the price with same internals.

 

[PoorMansCat]

??? If you don't like Fleetguard filters, then don't bother trying to find the CAT equivalent. Fleetguard makes the CAT filters.

umm.. NO... Fleetguard is owned by Cummins. Caterpillar makes some of their filters in-house and designs/specs the filters they outsource to Donaldson.
The Fleetguard filters that I have been purchasing for my personal truck seem to be getting poorer in quality every time I purchase one. Finding metal burrs in the threads of an oil filter, seal/orings that were not fuly formed and had porus voids in them, causing leaks..
Since originally posting to this thread, I have found a Donaldson oil filter that is of MUCH higher quality that is less expensive than the Fleetguard. Already have one laying on the counter waiting on the next OCI.