Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor

   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #41  
Question?

One some tractors the rear wheel spacing is adjustable but what does one do for spacing the front wheel?:confused: :confused:
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #42  
Egon said:
Question?

One some tractors the rear wheel spacing is adjustable but what does one do for spacing the front wheel?:confused: :confused:

Most tractors I have seen (not sure about compacts) are adjustable on the front.

On the MF135 I use for some match ploughing you can slide the front wheels in and out by undoing two bolts.
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #43  
Grrr, the tractors I grew up with [WD9, Farmall H/M, Allis 45, the John Deere's, Case etc. with drawbar pulls surely did not have adjustable front wheels in our area yet they did pull many a plough.:D :D

Three point hitch was the exception and limited to maybe two bottoms.:D :D

On a four wheel drive tractor it may be a little interesting trying to adjust the front wheels!:D :D
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #44  
Egon said:
Grrr, the tractors I grew up with [WD9, Farmall H/M, Allis 45, the John Deere's, Case etc. with drawbar pulls surely did not have adjustable front wheels in our area yet they did pull many a plough.:D :D

Three point hitch was the exception and limited to maybe two bottoms.:D :D

On a four wheel drive tractor it may be a little interesting trying to adjust the front wheels!:D :D

I'm not up to date on all the compacts, but with MFWD AG tractors, front wheel track width is usually adjustable by means of wheel assembly. The center dish and the rim are USUALLY 2 seperate pieces. They can USUALLY be assembled in a variety of ways to achieve different widths.

Most of the Canadian tractors I've seen (from the "old days") were "standard tread" models without an adjustable width front axle. In MOST cases, the fixed width was determined to co-ordinate with what would be needed for plow width. They could be built at plow width and left that way since they generally were not used as a row crop tractor.
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #45  
Soundguy said:
Must be a geometry issue with the plow. One thing I don't like are the steel frame members.. for some reason i like the cast ones better..

I think TSC is getting it's tractor equipment from 2 supplieres, depending on how north or south they are. The plows for sale down here in florida look like cheap junk.

Soundguy

When Harry Ferguson designed his hitch, the length of the draft arms vs the length of the top link was engineered to allow a plow to enter the ground WITHOUT having an excessivly heavy plow. Fergusons hitch (On FERGUSON tractors... I don't know the specific measurements of the FORD-FERGUSON hitch components) used a 33" long draft arm and with the plow level at operating depth, the top link was approx. 25-1/2". As the hitch was raised or lowered, the top and bottom links travelled through a different "arch". What that did was make the tail end of the plow raise faster than the drawbar as the hitch was lifted. As the plow was lowered, it had a "nose down attitude" until it reached operating depth. That made the points of the shares dig in without all that excessive weight forcing the plow into the ground. It worked, and everyone took the success for granted.

Some of these "johnny-come-lately" plows sold these days don't take that geometry into consideration. When I had that "TSC plow", I had to lengthen the top link quite a bit more than with the Ford 101 I normally used behind my Deere.

The "TSC plow" is a boat anchor. It's considerably heavier than a lot of the "great plows" of yesteryear. With all that built in weight, it still doesn't have any more built in stregnth.

I'm of the opinion the real reason why the TSC plow pulls as hard as it does is a part that you can't even see. The frog.... That's the part of the plow that the shares, shin, moldboard and landslide bolts to. The frog attaches to the lower end of the plow beam. It shapes the "bottom". I'm thinking the frog has the bottom mis-aligned just a tad bit. Combine that with the fact that the 'generic" wear parts (share/shin/moldboard/landslide) used on these plows fit extremely poor, and they just don't glide through the dirt like the good old plows made "back in the day".

The best plows I know of were mostly forged parts. (frames) Cast is too rigid and/or too brittle. Mild steel has to have too much bulk and mass to have the required strength. When Ford and Massey Ferguson went from the first generation of mounted plows to the newer designs of the mid 1950's they both dropped a lot of the cast parts in favor of forged. (i.e Ford 10-XX vs. model 101 plows) The old cast frame plows were good ones, but the forged models were better as well as less expensive to produce.

Long and short of it, these new plow "work", just not nearly as efficiently as the oldies that were designed and built back when plowing was a way of life and not a novelty like it is today.
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #46  
Farmwithjunk said:
I love it! Some of these comments, that is. It's as if EVERY plow is the same. EVERY plot of dirt is the same. EVERY tractor is the same. And EVERY operator is the same.

There are plows (brand/design/model) that simply pull easier than others. That's why they're held in such high regard. Jerry mentioned the MF#66. That's an easy pulling mounted plow. So is the Ford 101. Deere plows have historically pulled like someone tossed out the anchor. The primary difference is in the contour of the moldboard and angle of attack of the share. The Howse plows available these days use wear parts that are SUPPOSEDLY copies of the Ford (Pittsburg or Oliver/White built) 101. But the Howse plow pulls considerably harder than that Ford plow.

Plows designed in the 30's and 40's were intended for different speeds than plows of the 50's, 60's, and beyond. High speed in 1940 was 2-1/2 or 3 mph. High speed in 1965 was 5mph+. By the early 1960's, old logic on plowing had changed. It was found that tillage work was more efficient at higher speeds and smaller implement width. (to a point) Plow designs reflected that different thinking.

As plows went along through their evolution, they were used in different conditions. As crop science developed, and yields went up, so did crop residue. Plows had to have more "throat clearance" to handle leftover stalks. That made the plow longer in most cases. And that makes them pull harder.

Plows need to be set right in relation to the ground, and in relation to the tractor. A PROPERLY set up plow involves setting track width on the tractor to suit the plow. Commonly, people try to set the drawbar of the plow to suit the rear wheel track. In order to keep the "draft line" of the plow centered behind the tractor, it's the wheels that need to move and NOT the drawbar in many cases. Plow set-up goes way beyond simply "getting it level". If the plow isn't set right, the tractor has to man-handle the plow. Disregard the draft line being centered, and considerable effort and energy is wasted on trying to keep the tractor in a straight line rather than going forward.

Due to the simple fact that most modern tractors had ZERO engineering for use as a "plow horse", many aren't good candidates for plowing. Most compacts are shorter than the "old school" tractors built years ago. To an extent, the longer the tractor, the better it will handle a plow.

Soils vary considerably. SouNdguy mentioned the Ford adds that pictured old "N"s pulling three bottoms. Most of those old add photos were taken at the Ford Proving Grounds....In Michigan SAND. Try pulling 3X14"s in some of the clay soils around here! You wouldn't get the plow 2" in the ground before you'd run out of power AND traction. In this immediate area, back when "N"'s roamed the farm fields, it wasn't at all UNCOMMON to see them with single bottom 16" plows or at the most, 2X12"'s. Same tractors, just totally different soil conditions.

Some tractors are just better at handling heavy draft loads. Even when set up and ballasted correctly, some just don't do as well as others. A properly designed and adjusted draft control system makes the work easier, but again, some tractors just don't do as well.

And like so many things, there's a LOT more to plowing than what meets the eye. There's nothing like experience. I know a guy who spent a lot of time demonstrating tractors (for John Deere) at farm shows back in the 50's and 60's. He could make a tractor appear to have some extra HP with his technique. You golfers out there.... Ever see a big, strong, strapping young man that looked like he was killing the ball get smoked by an older golfer who simply knew how to drive the ball. It's all about technique.

For anyone who subscribes to the statement that "All men are created equal", You've never seen a group of plowmen in the same field at the same time. There are folks who just simply make it look easy. And there are those who never quite get the hang of it.

Sweet.

Great post FWJ.

Renews my desire to find a MF#66 or #74.
Time to start hanging out at the farm auctions again.
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #47  
You might be right about the Leinbach plow, but you might not. I agree, the configuration is similar, but the bolt patterns, moldboards and adjustments are different...at least compared to the KK ones. (This is all based on photos, never actually seen the Leinbach.) But, they are near me and I can cut costs by buying directly from them & I don't make my living at this so if it pulls a little hard, no harm done.

As for adjustable fronts, not on my 4wd tractor. You can't even reverse the rims.
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #48  
Egon said:
Question?

One some tractors the rear wheel spacing is adjustable but what does one do for spacing the front wheel?:confused: :confused:

Many tractors have 'leaf' style fronts or 'sliding tube' styles that adjust the front width, AND/OR dished centers that can be reversed.. etc.

Soundguy
 
   / Followup; Plowing with a 30 Hp Compact Tractor #49  
We were talking wide front tractors with respect to adjustable fronts. I know the h/m/45, and many jd's came as NF to begin with.. etc.. that's a different ballgame..

Soundguy

Egon said:
Grrr, the tractors I grew up with [WD9, Farmall H/M, Allis 45, the John Deere's, Case etc. with drawbar pulls surely did not have adjustable front wheels in our area yet they did pull many a plough.:D :D

Three point hitch was the exception and limited to maybe two bottoms.:D :D

On a four wheel drive tractor it may be a little interesting trying to adjust the front wheels!:D :D
 

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