Footer questions

daveman · Aug 17, 2005

Well I'm ready to finally start my first of two outbuildings.(Better late than never) Of course it took 6 months to get ahold of the Zoning officer. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif He mentioned what building types I could put up but came up with one I never heard of. A pole footer? It's where you put your poles into the ground (42" min.). Then cut them off 12" to 16" above the ground. Box them in with 2"x12" pretreated. Then build a conventional building with 16" centers atop of that. Anybody ever try this type of setup? Is it worth trying!

My second question is what is the best tool to get to level the ground to get started. I'm going to be working partially over an old dirt garage area and the driveway. With a slight grade. I've got a Backhoe, Loader, and Landscaping rake in my possession. (Yes I'm just getting started with my collection of "Toys" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Down side is I still haven't sold the old house so dollars are getting snug! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif So any ideas would help!

beenthere · Aug 17, 2005

A good, and cheap level would be a garden hose filled with water and with plastic 'risers' on each end that show the level of the water.

I'd think the pole footers would have some other spec for suitability other than just a "min 42", as the soil type beneath the pole would be critical to it being an adequate foundation for a building.

bczoom · Aug 17, 2005

Another leveling option is to drive a piece of rebar (or whatever) at each end/corner and pull a string tight between them (6" or so above the ground). Using a 4' level, set the string to a level position. If the measurement to ground varies from one end to the other, dig accordingly. Check the middle as well for any crown or hole.

What kind of building construction were you planning?

Brian

Nat · Aug 17, 2005

Dave, The footings you are talking about will work, but it will be cheaper and easier to just dig a standard footing then lay a block foundation the frame up the walls accordingly. The reason the convential method is normally used is because it works. If there were a cheaper, yet still sound method everyone would be using it. Contractors are not dumb, they use the best method they can find.
The treated poles, planted in concrete will work, but the floor system for that will cost more than a concrete floor, so no savings, it won't be stronger, and won't last longer. I don't know what the code calls for where you are, but here in NC you can dig a 6" deep x 16" wide footing then lay a corse of block, then pour the slab, and frame on top of that. All the way around that is the biggest bang for the bucks spent. I HTH, later, Nat

rswyan · Aug 18, 2005

( I don't know what the code calls for where you are, but here in NC you can dig a 6" deep x 16" wide footing then lay a corse of block, then pour the slab, and frame on top of that. )

Well he's either in Northeast or Southeast Ohio. Local to me, the City of Akron's requirements are, for a detached garage:

Frame building - 6" deep x 12" wide @ 24" depth

Block buildings - 8" deep x 16" wide @ 36" depth.

An attached garage is the same as a block building above.

Given the above depth requirements, is it your opinion that it would still be cheaper going block ? (inquiring minds want to know /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

I'm currently looking at putting up a polebarn myself and the one company I've talked to (Cleary Builders) uses an auger to drill a hole to a minimum depth of 46" and then places or pours a concrete "cookie" at least 6" thick at the bottom and then places the post (6" x 6" laminated post) on that and backfills. I was initially looking to install a poured solid foundation myself but am ending up way over-budget as it is and will probably go with the "cookie" method proposed by the builder and then pour a monolithic slab (if permitted to do so.)

Cowboyjg · Aug 18, 2005

The block foundation vs just the poles augered into the ground will definitely be more expensive. Outside of the "Cookie" you will have no other concrete....unless you plan to pour a slab.

Regarding your posts.....I would have to question a laminated post unless it is treted for exterior use. My concern would be de-lamination and subsequent deterioration due to the moisture in the ground. Typically, laminated material is not designed for direct exposure to the weather. If using the laminated post is the only option.....I would wrap the portion that goes in the ground with a moisture resistant material (Foil tape, felt paper, etc.) and then encase the post in concrete being sure to make the top of the concrete at least 4" above grade and slope the concrete so water doesn't collect where the post becomes exposed. Also, the depth of the poles should be relative to the height of the barn..(1 vs 2 story)

daveman · Aug 18, 2005

I'm up in the far north east corner of Ohio. According to our zoning guy here, 42 inches is the depth I need to go with any pole barn or pole footer arrangement (With the cookie on the bottom!). I've been thinking about a normal pole barn though. It seems the most cost effecient so far. My final goal (Once the house in Madison sells) is to put up a workshop also. But the garage will be the easier and cheaper. Since I'm starting so late that seems the best way to go. My neighbor just threw another snag in the idea that the zoning permit is only one of the permits needed. According to her I need Building permits from the County also. When hers was put up she had to get a permit for the structure, electric, and plumbing (for her garden hose!). Total cost for the permits was just under $1,000. I'm hoping her contractor (who got the permits for her) just padded the cost. I'm off to the county offices Friday to find out. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

daveman · Aug 18, 2005

I found in my collection of stuff from a yardsale a string level. Haven't seen one in ages but I checked it against a 4' level and it seems good. I'm going to try that Idea and measuring. One thing I have learned through my adventures in owning this property. Starting out level is much easier than trying to fix it later! I'm leaning towards the Pole barn idea. Mainly due to cost. I can always make the outside look fancier to please the wife. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I'm just hoping a post hole digger will get through the old stone and blacktop chunk driveway (Found that under the lousy grass patch when digging with the backhoe!). Otherwise it's oversize holes with the backhoe! (That becomming my favorite toy lately /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Nat · Aug 18, 2005

Maybe I misunderstood the type building you are putting up. If a pole building is what you are doing then yes it will be cheaper. But, if as I understood, the poles footings are for a box beam then a 16" OC floor system, then standard framed walls, I still stick with my answer. I thought you were building a framed floor and a framed wall system.
Here in central NC a block foundation will cost about 3.25 per 8" block installed including sand, mortar, and labor, but we don't have to go 42" deep. That will sure increase the cost of a block foundation.
For an example , a 24 X32 Foot building will take 3 2/3 yard of concrete for a footing, and will take 252 standard 8" X 16" blocks to be 42 " deep. It will also take 9 2/3 yards of concrete for the slab/floor. Here in NC That adds up to : footing=290.00, Foundation =820.00, slab/floor 1200.00.
That is approx. 2300 bucks and that includes the labor for the block and the slab/floor.
It would take 16 4' X 8' X 3/4 subfloor and here the T&G OSB is 32 bucks a sheet, and it would take 68 2 X 10 x12 , and 9 2 X 10 X 8 joist to make the beams and floor. So just the price of those items has you back up to the same cost as the block and concrete. Again these are NC prices and may be different where you are. I, don't want to discourage anyone from building, and anyway you can save a buck is great. Akll I am saying is there is a reason for the convential way of doing things. HTH, later, Nat

bczoom · Aug 18, 2005

( I found in my collection of stuff from a yardsale a string level. Haven't seen one in ages but I checked it against a 4' level and it seems good. )

I've used string levels for "rough" measurements but found they're off about 6" over 50'. Once you get near finish grade, I'd scrap the string level and use the 4'.

Brian