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rswyan · Aug 18, 2005

( I would have to question a laminated post unless it is treted for exterior use. My concern would be de-lamination and subsequent deterioration due to the moisture in the ground. Typically, laminated material is not designed for direct exposure to the weather. )
The posts they use are made up from three PT 2" x 6"s .... I don't believe that they are glued ... just nailed. And they don't use splices on the outside boards either .... just a single continous 2" x 6" I believe the corner post have all three 2" x 6"s continous.

( Outside of the "Cookie" you will have no other concrete....unless you plan to pour a slab. )
I am.

rswyan · Aug 18, 2005

( I'm up in the far north east corner of Ohio. According to our zoning guy here, 42 inches is the depth I need to go with any pole barn or pole footer arrangement (With the cookie on the bottom!). )
Yeah .... I would think from the research I've been doing that going at least 42" would be a good idea.

( I've been thinking about a normal pole barn though. It seems the most cost effecient so far. )
Don't know exactly what your needs are but Cleary has a special going right now on three sizes of polebarns:

30' x 50' x 10' - $9,995

42' x 72' x 14' - $18,995 (This is the one I am looking at)

60' x 72' x 15' - $25,995

I believe that those are erected prices. They are for the basic building (a single slider, no personnel door, no overhangs on the gables and eaves) Freight cost on the specials are less than 1/2 ($500 vs $1300 for 42' x 72')

By the time I got the one I was looking at optioned the way I needed it (three 12' x 10' overhead doors, two personnel doors, 1' overhang all the way around, some other stuff) I was looking at figure closer to $26K rather than $18K ..... and that still doesn't include pouring the floor, and the electric and plumbing - all of which I'm hoping to do myself.

And that's provided that I can get it through zoning (seems the township/village powers that be where I live decided that 1800 sq. ft. of "accessory" building is all anyone should ever need) I think I'm in the same boat as far as permits go - three will be required if I want electric and water (.... unless they just mysteriously appear later /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) I haven't yet checked on the permit cost ...

rswyan · Aug 18, 2005

( My second question is what is the best tool to get to level the ground to get started. )
You might look at buying or renting a self-levelling rotating laser level and then driving elevation stakes which are marked at the top (level to the laser) and are marked towards the bottom at your desired grade level .... that's what I'm planning on doing.

You also might check into what sort of exemption from requirements there is on ag buildings ... maybe you need some chickens or a goat .... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cowboyjg · Aug 18, 2005

( The posts they use are made up from three PT 2" x 6"s .... I don't believe that they are glued ... just nailed. And they don't use splices on the outside boards either .... just a single continous 2" x 6" I believe the corner post have all three 2" x 6"s continous.
)

Well...a couple of things.

I guess that combination could qualify as laminated. When I hear laminated in relation to beams and posts I think of Micro or parallam which is a whole different animal than what your are describing.

On a personal note...I would prefer a single member situation for at least my primary (4 corners & intermediates as needed based on structure size) supports.

Having only limited experience with heaving conditions I would probably want a foundation around the perimeter of the slab.

One cost cutting measure might be to build the entire footing and stemwall, then ( if the area is large enough to justify) pour a third of the floor now, a third next year and a third the following year. You're going to need to saw cut the slab any way, so a cold joint would accomplish the same thing and might make the cost a little more tolerable. Just leave a little wire and rebar exposed to let you tie in the new pour. In the mean time you could lay DOT gravel in the area that will get poured later. You shouldn't even have to take up the gravel. Just compact it over time. This should give you a nice base.

Just some thoughts.

daveman · Aug 18, 2005

The building I was planning first will be 26' x 28' (Or 30' depending on where I can dig in!) My workshop I'm hoping to have later will be at least 30' x 40'. (That's the beginning thought! The workshop is tough to decide!) The zoing officer mentioned that I could lay the plumbing and the tubing for the electric "For later possible use" and not get dinged for it if nothing was hooked up and no wire in the tube. (He thinks the building permit prices are nuts too.) He also mentioned to use the word "Storage" alot. And not to use the word garage at all. Garages are a hole nother mess I guess. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif So far he's been helpful though. Just took a long time to track him down. Just to find out that he lives directly behind me on the other side of the creek. (Next street over!)

rswyan · Aug 18, 2005

( My workshop I'm hoping to have later will be at least 30' x 40'. (That's the beginning thought! The workshop is tough to decide!) )
More space is generally better /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I already have a 28 x 30 block outbuilding on my property, the house has an attached two car garage. By the time I put up storage shelves and added a few tools (couple of bench grinders, drill press, parts washer, air compressor, welder, plasma cutter, and a wood stove) I have just enough room for the ZTR, an old IH Cub Cadet, the TracVac, and a little lawn trailer. Then I got the Kubota, half a dozen implements, and a 4' x 8' wagaon and 4' x 8' trailer (all of which spend most of their time outside during the summer. The oldest kid and his wife are now living with us (two more vehicles) and the new truck won't fit in my existing garage (the door is two low) It's all too easy fill up whatever is available.

( The zoing officer mentioned that I could lay the plumbing and the tubing for the electric "For later possible use" and not get dinged for it if nothing was hooked up and no wire in the tube. (He thinks the building permit prices are nuts too.) )
What's this guy name and number .... maybe he'd like to relocate a little south ? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif He sounds like my kind of zoning inspector.

( He also mentioned to use the word "Storage" alot. And not to use the word garage at all. Garages are a hole nother mess I guess. )
This guy is a gem .... don't let anyone run him out of there.

It's the same situation here with garages vs. storage buildings. I think that detached garages are limited to 768 sq ft. Storage buildings, polebarns are limited to 1800 sq. ft. (30' x 60') - if you have at least five acres - and you can only have one of each type. I have 16.5 acres which might help in getting a larger building than what is normally permitted.

( Just took a long time to track him down. Just to find out that he lives directly behind me on the other side of the creek. (Next street over!) )
What a hoot !

daveman · Aug 19, 2005

I still need to check on the sizes I'm allowed to put in. I've only got 2.6 acres now. But I'm hoping that when my old house sells the 2.9 acres next to me will still be available. That would give me the "5 acres+" That I've wanted. (Was part of the reason for buying the place I'm at!)

The deal with the zoning officer was funny! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Especially since everybody around me said he was a knucklehead. Then after meeting the man I find out that he's only been there two years. Most of my neighbors were dealing with the old officer. Glad I didn't listen to them! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Well tonight is the race against time. Trying to make it to the other side of the 2 counties to the building office to find out cost and allowances before they close at 4:00pm. (I work in the west end of Lake county and the office is in the middle of Ashtabula county!) Should be fun!

trlong · Aug 19, 2005

( I've used string levels for "rough" measurements but found they're off about 6" over 50'. Once you get near finish grade, I'd scrap the string level and use the 4'. )

IMHO, a line level, unless the "hanger loops?" are bent, can be a reasonably accurate tool so long as you have a strong, and very tight line. Ofcourse, the longer the line level, the better. I used one when I set my footings for my deck posts, for my main carrying beam, and for the 10'x20' slab under a section of the deck. A carpenter friend helped and he had a line level that was about 1' long and extremely light. Don't know where he picked it up...never thought to ask. The deck is 40' long and 12' deep (at it's deepest section) and, according to the line level, and checking with a 4' level, nothing is off by more than 1/4" in 40'. Placing a 2'x3' rafter square at the top of the support posts, up against the bottom of the carrying beam, each one is about as dead square as possible...not the least gap anywhere.

That said, I should mention that for leveling and dry-lining, the line was pulled so tight that I think I tuned it to about two octaves above "Concert A" /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. The deck has now withstood 14 winters in Vermont. I can still put a rafter square on the posts, up against the bottom of the carrying beam and see no gaps. Perhaps it would be best to use laser levels. I don't think the Egyptions or Romans had any when they built the structures that are still standing though (probably used systems more like suggested by "Beenthere"). Guess I'm just old fashioned (or just plain cheap /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

As for the main carrying beam, I dry-lined it to w/i 1/8" of dead straight over 40'. I do like to start with everything as straight and level as I can get it. I also used a smaller line level when I built my 10'X12' shed. I did check everything with the 4' level, and I used 3-4-5's to verify. 4'x8' siding and roofing sheets went on dead square. So, I figure all must be fairly level and square.

Just my thoughts,

Tom

MikeD74T · Aug 20, 2005

The best cheap leveling device is 100' of 3/8" clear tubing from a plumbing supply, Home Depot, etc. Secure one end in a gallon milk jug & syphon until the hose is full. Set the water level in the jug at a reference point attached so it won't fall over. Make a 10" x 10" wood pad with a vertical mast (strapping) & attach the hose near the bottom & run the open end to the top of the mast. The large volume of the jug minimizes reaction to slight height deviations. You can mark reference grades on the mast. Just don't lay it down. If the water volume changes (spills) it must be refilled or reset to grade. This is accurate to 1/8" in 100' & almost as easy to use as a lazer. Much easier to use than a transit. It's also not a major loss if you run over it. Food coloring in the water makes it easier to see. I've also used RV antifreeze in the winter. The most important thing to remember is you are working in reverse. If the water goes up the mast, the bottom of the mast (and the grade) went down
I liked Dave's comment about the building inspector. I've found that asking the inspector what he expects up front is the best way to start. Builders that have inspector troubles usually are trying to get away with something.

trlong · Aug 20, 2005

Mike,

I really like that design. As I hope to be leveling a much larger area, and structure, than I've taken on before, I think I'll use it. Great design as it is a direct application of KISS.

Thanks,

Tom