For those retired - do you see college as important as when you were college age?

[California]

what happens when you were around before the "IT / computer engineering courses " were even thought of by the education system ... you know , where you were teaching the courses/ropes to younger people , before there was any certification

No kidding. I set up the first LAN in our division (60 employees at a remote site) and got it right. A year later it integrated perfectly with the corporate WAN after they finally allowed remote sites to link into the HQ system. After a few months they required that I abandon responsibility for it, for their 'trained staff' (turned out to be the Mac Help Desk) to operate. ... With the obvious consequences ...

 

[aczlan]

After a few months they required that I abandon responsibility for it, for their 'trained staff' (turned out to be the Mac Help Desk) to operate. ... With the obvious consequences ...

Was that trained staff or trained monkeys ?

Aaron Z

 

[dave1949]

one simple question ... what happens when you were around before the "IT / computer engineering courses " were even thought of by the education system ... you know , where you were teaching the courses/ropes to younger people , before there was any certification ... chicken and the egg stuff ...

I had the impression that certification originated as a profit center for Microsoft. It then spread like a cancer through IT. :laughing:

I dunno. There were a lot of people in IT early on that were solo acts. No older, more experienced guys around to give OJT. This was especially true in small companies newly adopting integrated systems. In that sort of situation if a certification course could put someone on the path to reasonable skills, then it could be worth it. Before certification--which I narrowly escaped :dance1:--I spent a lot of money and time on technical books. Installed and ran some things on my home PC, etc.

Like all education, it's mostly about the student's desire to master a subject.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

one simple question ... what happens when you were around before the "IT / computer engineering courses " were even thought of by the education system ... you know , where you were teaching the courses/ropes to younger people , before there was any certification ... chicken and the egg stuff ...

You got it. These certifications are nothing more than money mills.

 

[jaotguy]

With the obvious consequences ...

ditto , only I had to build the cable drops and run the coax cabling too ... a modified soldering iron and a proper crimper made it easy ....

later, they handed it over to a freshly "certified" technician ... nothing but cold joints , shorted cables ( used pliers to crimp, cause the crimper got lost ) and an intermittent LAN for weeks .... guess who got the job to find and fix it all the mistakes ...

then they promoted the new "tech" to oversee the network ....

that Tech then proceeded to train "us" how to solder tips and crimp coax .... when the old hands tried to explain the errors in the methods used , all they got was "Don't tell me how it's done , I've got papers" .... Thankfully , a true engineer was sitting in and reported back to management that the new Tech didn't know their stuff and was useless ....

 

[SPIKER]

ditto , only I had to build the cable drops and run the coax cabling too ... a modified soldering iron and a proper crimper made it easy ....

later, they handed it over to a freshly "certified" technician ... nothing but cold joints , shorted cables ( used pliers to crimp, cause the crimper got lost ) and an intermittent LAN for weeks .... guess who got the job to find and fix it all the mistakes ...

then they promoted the new "tech" to oversee the network ....

that Tech then proceeded to train "us" how to solder tips and crimp coax .... when the old hands tried to explain the errors in the methods used , all they got was "Don't tell me how it's done , I've got papers" .... Thankfully , a true engineer was sitting in and reported back to management that the new Tech didn't know their stuff and was useless ....

\
Sounds really familiar only a bit reversed in place I spent 5 years. The Young Kid had played and worked on IT systems since he was in jr high. He was maybe 25 at the time when the company fired the Old Guard running the IT department for some (unauthorized internet usage) and went searching for new blood. The KID was one running the cables and installing servers software writing backup code etc. Well the KID ran the department by himself for a year till a new IT Head was found. The KID after working with the "NEW old guy" figured out the guy had no clue what he was doing & he was Managing the KID. Telling the kid how to do the job only really messing up the systems. The kid took all his code and went to greener pastures. Two weeks after the rent-a-cops escorted the KID off site the system crashed & leaving the well educated guy by himself, which (he blamed the KID said he sabotaged the systems.) Kind of funny everything was OK till the NEW GUY implemented his own disaster...

The KID is doing very well and I am still in contact with him on Linked In as he was/is a good guy now married with 3rd kid on way. He graduated from same 2 year school I went to only 15 years or so later...

I agree that all those MS and CISCO Certifications are mostly $ makers for poppa company with out really caring much about the people paying up...

Mark

 

[WM75Guy]

I would say I have gotten a good return on my college investment. The way I look at it college can either provide vocational education or meet the requirements for a license. Hiring practices have changed since I started working. We have transitioned from away from hiring for ability to hiring for the resume. You can't get to an interview without having education.

Back in the 80s when I was a firefighter/paramedic I got an AAS in Paramedicine and an AAS in Fire Protection Technology. They were worth the money from the standpoint that the advanced information was only taught at the college level back then. It helped me stay alive and advance through the ranks. Now everyone is getting a Bachelors.

Before I retired in 2002 I got a BS in Business Management. Not only was it good practical information but it allowed me to get a job working with GED programs doing computer software/hardware maintenance and teaching. The state required a minimum of a BS or BA degree to get a teaching certificate. I went back to college and graduated in 2008 with an AAS in Nursing. Again, it was needed for vocational education and a state license as an RN. To advance to management I have to go back and get at least a BS in Nursing or better yet a Masters. So I am headed back to college once again.

 

[troutsqueezer]

College is nowhere near as important as ambition.

 

[aczlan]

I agree that all those MS and CISCO Certifications are mostly $ makers for poppa company with out really caring much about the people paying up...

I have a couple of Cisco certifications and I would say that they are very good at testing how well you can remember how to do things "The Cisco way" and how well you can remember the minutia that is only important to Cisco. I learned a lot when studying for them but I failed with an 81% (passing is 85%) car too many times because I read the scenario and did it one way but they really wanted me to do it the other way.

College is nowhere near as important as ambition.

Agreed. Someone with ambition can go far. Someone without it wont no matter how much paper they have hanging on the wall.

Aaron Z

 

[forgeblast]

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