For those retired - do you see college as important as when you were college age?

[kenmac]

One other comment, I graduated debt free

Aaron Z

My son will also graduate debt free in 1.5 yrs from now.. I put back $$ in a 529 plan yrs ago so ,he wouldn't have to start life with debt. I went to college for about a yr. I didn't like it. I went to trade school and learned HVAC/ Plumbing and have been in that business for 30+++ yrs. I still have to return to school /classes to keep up with all the changes that have taken place in the trade over the yrs. but, it's been a good living for me . HVAC/ Plumbing isn't easy work , but the pay is always good. Most kids now days, don't want to get their hands dirty.. I know.. I've hired and fired many..

 

[mjarrels]

Got to fund those football progams and coaches who make $700, 000 per year!

mark

 

[buckeyefarmer]

For technical jobs it's required. I was able to get by debt free 30 yrs ago by working summer jobs, but today I don't think you can do that.

 

[aczlan]

For technical jobs it's required. I was able to get by debt free 30 yrs ago by working summer jobs, but today I don't think you can do that.

It can be done, but it depends on the school, the program and how hard you look. My sister graduated 2 years ago with a Masters in English Rhetoric. Before that, she got her Bachelors in something English related. She had excellent grades and got scholarships to cover almost everything.

HVAC/ Plumbing isn't easy work , but the pay is always good. Most kids now days, don't want to get their hands dirty.. I know.. I've hired and fired many..

I worked for a HVAC contractor at a summer when I was 16 years old. It was good work but they ran out of jobs so I switched to working for an electrician and went from there to my favorite profession, computers. Less time working in hot attics fixing broken HVAC systems or pulling wires that way .

Aaron Z

 

[RichZ]

I graduated high school in 1972 and wanted to be a wildlife biologist. When I graduated college in 1976, with a bachelors in wildlife biology, jobs in wildlife biology were scarce, but there were jobs in marine biology, so I got a masters in marine biology. In 1977 I managed to get a job as a lab technician for the New York State Dept of Health. It was a "foot in the door" job, and I hoped to get into bio research. Bio jobs were scarce and the state took advantage of the situation. I ended up running a gas chromatography lab with several people working under me, but I was still paid as a lab tech. In order to get a higher pay, I took a civil service test for a position called a sanitarian, basically an environmental and building inspector. I did well on the test went on an interview and was offered a job, and the salary was twice what I was making as a lab tech. I told my boss, if he didn't promote me, I would take the sanitarian job. My boss laughed at me and told me that I was a scientist and that I would never be happy as a building inspector. I told him that I needed a living wage and I was prepared to enter a new field to get it. He told me not to let the door hit me on my butt on the way out. I moved up through the system, eventually becoming a building inspector, and now I review constructor applications for health care facilities throughout the state. I never worked in my chosen field, but the fact that I had the degrees did open doors for me. The funny part is all of my co-workers are architects and engineers, and I do the same work as them, and get paid the same as them, in fact most people think I'm an architect.

But in my day, I worked my way through college, working in warehouses and factories at night during the week, and having a band on the weekends, I made enough money to pay for my school and support myself. But with the cost of education now, I don't think kids can do that. It's a bad situation. It's much tougher for kids today, and they have to be more resourceful if mommy and daddy can't afford to pay for school. I have three kids helping me build fences on my farm right now who have the right idea. All three started college, realized they could never afford it and came up with other plans. They are all working on trades, and they're hard working smart kids. One is learning to be a mechanic, one is learning carpentry and the other is working in a leather shop, learning all aspects of that trade. And on weekends they do farm construction work for my friends and me and make some extra money. Smart, hard working kids, who will do well in this current economic situation .

 

[dave1949]

If you trace the rapid increases in college tuition over the last few years you will find tuition increases closely correlate with federal student loan guarantees. The big beneficiaries of federally encouraged student loans have been physical plant at colleges and pay checks + benefits for tenured faculty; not students.

Another example of supply and demand, distorted by (well intentioned) government action, producing unintended consequences.

I don't have much insight into the 'world of universities.' The little I am aware of makes me think universities are run by people from another planet. :laughing:

The UMaine system has seven campuses with enrollment totaling 30,365 spread around a sparsely populated state and each has its own president, deans, admins, etc. They proposed consolidating some of that admin overhead and you would think the world was going to end. Mind you, the UMaine system is losing enrollment (down 6.1% since 2009) and under a good bit of financial pressure.

BGSU, Ohio where I graduated from is firmly committed to building out their sports facilities it seems. New dorms. Plus they are currently tearing down the old on campus frat/sorority houses and building new ones. They have been renovating that campus on a continuing basis for at least 15 years now.

Somewhere in all that I have to think academic excellence is taking a back seat. Priorities can be odd and not just in universities.

When the local high school was updated with new facilities and lots of new building space, the booster club came up with $100K for the football stadium astro turf, lights, whatever. They are only half as football crazy in Maine as they are in Ohio. :laughing: But I wonder if the community could raise $100K for additions to a science/technology lab?

Surely to some extent that spending is fueled by borrowed money in the form of federally guaranteed student loans. We need people with advanced educations but there are many thousands of talented, smart folks globally that are much cheaper to hire than the homegrown variety, that's part of the issue holding down degree holders' employment and wages. Loans could be limited to certain degree programs and/or academic performance minimums. Virtual college scams could be shut down, they absorb a lot of student loans.

 

[KubotaOwner]

I barely graduated high school and I had to cheat in a couple of classes to make it through. College was never an option for me, I'm just not smart enough for all that thinking, so I rely on hard work and doing it better then my competition. It's worked for me and I'm able to live a very comfortable life and do the things I want to without having to worry about money. My wife has two masters degrees. One in nursing the other in business. She is currently a nurse manager with over 100 nurses working for her, and she taught nursing at the university for several years. She is taking two classes right now for her PhD and then her last class will be in the winter or spring. While I make more money then she does, the potential for her to make more is there. She has been offered positions to teach nursing online as a part time, extra income at $3,000 a month. Once she is done with school, that is probably going to happen. The big advantage with her degrees and education is that she is in demand all over the country and she is regularly offered positions at other hospitals and universities. If we wanted to move, she could get a job anywhere and make really good money. I would have to start over and build up my clientele again. Looking back, I can see where it would have been smart to have gone to school and gotten an education. It's probably my biggest failure in life.

When I worked as a driver for Airborne Express back in the 90's, half the guys there had college degrees. They all said they where making more money delivering freight then they could working in the fields they had a degree in. It could just be that they where all the type to want the easy job and not push themselves in their fields, which is also what I kind of thought about them, but then I don't know anything about their degrees or what it takes to make a living in those kinds of jobs.

I have learned that if you want to be a RN, you better get a four year degree because the day of the 2 year degreed RN is quickly ending. Karen and the other managers at the hospital are not hiring them if all they have is an Associates degree. And if you want to get ahead, you better have your Masters.

Three of Karen's kids have their BS degrees. None of them work in those fields. Her youngest has recently dropped out after two years working on his degree in computers and IT. He has come to realize the field is saturated and feels it's a worthless degree. He is now talking about going back to school and focusing on physical therapy. There seems to be a demand for that, and it's something he enjoys.

Eddie

From reading your posts, you seem to have wisdom and smarts beyond many that I know with degrees. I am a retired, degreed mechanical engineer. Over the years, I worked with a number of older individuals who were engineers by experience who taught me a lot. A degree is no assurance that someone has a lick of common sense, but these days, in certain fields, you cannot get a job without an accredited degree.

 

[forgeblast]

Virtual college scams could be shut down, they absorb a lot of student loans.
Actually I enjoy taking online classes. I live an hour from the nearest university and to drive and take a class would take 2 hours I could be spending doing class work. Plus having a little one at home means when she goes to bed i can work. I am a self-directed learner, and am able to get work done, I do not need the structure of a physical/traditional class to get me motivated.
There are a few free online university's where you can take classes for different programs, udacity is one example. Also most major universities have class content online, where if you want to learn you can take the classes for free for no credit.

 

[dave1949]

Virtual college scams could be shut down, they absorb a lot of student loans.
Actually I enjoy taking online classes. I live an hour from the nearest university and to drive and take a class would take 2 hours I could be spending doing class work. Plus having a little one at home means when she goes to bed i can work. I am a self-directed learner, and am able to get work done, I do not need the structure of a physical/traditional class to get me motivated.
There are a few free online university's where you can take classes for different programs, udacity is one example. Also most major universities have class content online, where if you want to learn you can take the classes for free for no credit.

I'm not saying all virtual offerings are scams or have limited educational value. They do open the means to scamming with no investment other than some PC's and phones.

More Trouble for For-Profit Colleges: They Can't Keep Calling Your Cell|David Halperin
$200,000 financial aid scam hits Bay Area college - SFGate

 

[JimRB]

Dave1949 mentioned something. Tearing down dorm buildings because the kids do not want to walk down the hallway and crap or shower in a 10 stall room. Granted when I went to Kent State early 80's they had some dorms with 4 bedrooms to a bathroom but they still had lots of 1960's dorms where you had to walk 50-100 feet to the common bathroom. Which of course is off topic from the question of is a college degree necessary or useful. But it does bring up an interesting point of one reason why education costs more. Reduced state subsidies also affects tuition prices.