Ford 1700, any help?

[JC-jetro]

I'm not provy to all the particulars o fthe 1700.. but if your tranny oil cap is suposed to have a dipstick on it, like my 5000 does.. then when you drain the trans oil.. I'd feel around in the bottom of the oil pan for it... that's where my 5000 dipstick was..

I had to buy a new cap/dipstick... etc.. CNH ordered one for me quick.. etc..

soundguy

You are right Soundguy, tranny cap dipstick is as you explained. By the way the dip stick is part of the cap and no chance of it falling in transmission housing on 1700.

John, you might have looked at the wrong place. Tranny dipstick is right next to right gear shifter and once you take the cap off you'll see the dipstick below. How did you find the oil was bad if you did not open the cap? the second dipstick is the engine oil and is to the left side of the oil filter on the engine as the pics below show. I tied oil dip stick to the engine with a wire so i would not by mistake loose or have it snagged out by a brush. You'll notice a lot of oil splashing out if dipstick is out. Follow the information below to see where you serial # fall at and that's the manufacturing date of your rig.
1979- U70001
1980- U704803
1981- U709687
1982- U712953
1983- U715471

JC,

 

[JB4310]

"John, you might have looked at the wrong place. Tranny dipstick is right next to right gear shifter and once you take the cap off you'll see the dipstick below. How did you find the oil was bad if you did not open the cap? the second dipstick is the engine oil and is to the left side of the oil filter on the engine as the pics below show."

JC, I can figure most of that stuff out, but my tranny cap no longer has the dip stick, I can see it's broken off, so just aprx when you look in the tranny case where about should the level be? mine is only about 1/4 to 1/3 full now, and that is gear lube in there isn't it?, I'm so spoiled with my hydro's!
The black oil I was referring to was in the engine oil pan, it was way over on the stick so I just dumped it all and even though I didn't have the filter yet just filled it back up to the right level with fresh oil, have the filter and belt coming tomorrow so I'll end up changing it again.

Here's where I really need help, now the tranny gear box I'm assuming uses 90-140 wt gear lube?? what about the rear end I know there is hydraulic fluid in there for the 3 PT lift but am not sure whats in that whole rear end, there's no level plugs that I can see, no sight glass.
Like I said I'm spoiled with my E hydro which is all one fluid through out, except engine of course, is the 1700 the same?
The back to basics aspect of this older tractor is what's appealing to me, and it has a nice sound! and by the way that glow plug element on the dash works, this tractor is much happier with the hot start even in this warm weather, Thanks again, John

 

[JC-jetro]

"John, you might have looked at the wrong place. Tranny dipstick is right next to right gear shifter and once you take the cap off you'll see the dipstick below. How did you find the oil was bad if you did not open the cap? the second dipstick is the engine oil and is to the left side of the oil filter on the engine as the pics below show."

JC, I can figure most of that stuff out, but my tranny cap no longer has the dip stick, I can see it's broken off, so just aprx when you look in the tranny case where about should the level be? mine is only about 1/4 to 1/3 full now, and that is gear lube in there isn't it?, I'm so spoiled with my hydro's!
The black oil I was referring to was in the engine oil pan, it was way over on the stick so I just dumped it all and even though I didn't have the filter yet just filled it back up to the right level with fresh oil, have the filter and belt coming tomorrow so I'll end up changing it again.

Here's where I really need help, now the tranny gear box I'm assuming uses 90-140 wt gear lube?? what about the rear end I know there is hydraulic fluid in there for the 3 PT lift but am not sure whats in that whole rear end, there's no level plugs that I can see, no sight glass.
Like I said I'm spoiled with my E hydro which is all one fluid through out, except engine of course, is the 1700 the same?
The back to basics aspect of this older tractor is what's appealing to me, and it has a nice sound! and by the way that glow plug element on the dash works, this tractor is much happier with the hot start even in this warm weather, Thanks again, John

John,

Next time I go to my place I'll take the cap off and measure the dipstick hight and the where the oil should be. You can transfer that information to a piece of all tread or some shaft.. in other words rig up a oil depth gage out of what is available to you. You can buy the cap easily from NH. If you want the part # let me know and I can come up with that. For the time being make sure the gears as you view them from the hole are almost submerged but not fully. That is my recollection of the depth of the oil.

Take your hydro stuff hat off for a bit. This ain't nothing like hydro. The rear differential, transmission and lift system all use same kind of oil and it ain't as heavy of the oil for straight gear box like 90-140 as you mentioned. It is much lighter oil. in my previous post I mentioned exactly what oil you need. rear differential and the transmission is open to one another with rear differential acting as a return reservoir.. That is very common to a lot of gear tractor new or old. The hyd pump usually withdraws oil from differential , pumps it up to the lift system and returns what is not used back to differential. Make sure you do not put wrong oil in the system. Again you only need one type of oil. Engine oil is separate and crankshaft seal and the bell housing and transmission inpur shaft seal on the opposite side keep the oils separate. If either seal leaks, it would end up in the clutch housing. You will not find level hole or sight glass with 1700. That holds true with most " non Hydro tractors".

Again, search the Forum using my handle JC-jetro and the threads started by me where I give the skinny on how I have replaced hydraulic oil, cleaning inlet screen, overhauling lift cylinder and last but not the least overhauling my hyd pump.

I've gone over the deep end and provided many pictures and description. It was like preaching or singing to the quire you know.


JC,

PS, what fresh oil did you use for the engine. I hope it was a diesel engine formulated oil rather than gas.

 

[JB4310]

O.K. that's about it for the unknowns for now, I did take a quick look at some of your other posts, you sure did go through it! good job and super clean. This is my 4th diesel, have 2 Dodges with Cummins (5.9L and 6.7L) a 32 HP Yanmar in my JD4310 and now a shibaura? so I have plenty of oil for diesels, use different brands of fleet type 15-40 year round. Thanks, John

 

[Soundguy]

You are right Soundguy, tranny cap dipstick is as you explained. By the way the dip stick is part of the cap and no chance of it falling in transmission housing on 1700.

I can assure you that there is a chance of the cap and stick becoming seperated (wink)....

Here's what i found on my 5000. Apaprently the prev owner may have ? bent the stick a little and put it back in. there is very little clearance.. at least onmy 5000 trans... any deflection in the stick and it touches a gear. Apparently it got pulled up and wadded up .. Luckilly I only found small metal and no 'teeth' in my oil and all the gear 'feel' good so far..

I've included my cap, and dipstick.. used to be oem 1- unit.. al metal..



Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

O.K. that's about it for the unknowns for now, I did take a quick look at some of your other posts, you sure did go through it! good job and super clean. This is my 4th diesel, have 2 Dodges with Cummins (5.9L and 6.7L) a 32 HP Yanmar in my JD4310 and now a shibaura? so I have plenty of oil for diesels, use different brands of fleet type 15-40 year round. Thanks, John

As JC points out.. you'll be needing UTF if that is a common sump machine.

Also.. i'm a bit concerned that you said that the crankcase was overfull.

Sometimes that indicates a leaky injector pump.. so keep an eye on that crankcase oil level IE.. I'd check it every hour for a few hours of runtime till i knew it wasn't changing much.. then daily.. etc..

If she starts 'making' oil.. then you need to adress the issue immediatly. don't want to alarm you.. just make it known.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[JC-jetro]

I can assure you that there is a chance of the cap and stick becoming seperated (wink)....

Here's what i found on my 5000. Apaprently the prev owner may have ? bent the stick a little and put it back in. there is very little clearance.. at least onmy 5000 trans... any deflection in the stick and it touches a gear. Apparently it got pulled up and wadded up .. Luckilly I only found small metal and no 'teeth' in my oil and all the gear 'feel' good so far..

I've included my cap, and dipstick.. used to be oem 1- unit.. al metal..



Soundguy

Soundguy,

I'm glad you were able to retrieve the metal rod(dipstick) with no damage to the gears. After I saw your pic I then looked at my manual and sure enough it is a metal dispstick like yours. Surely one can come apart from the cap by some sort of abuse. For some reason I had a Brain hiccup and had a vision of that cap and dispstick on 1700 same as my Honda lawn mower which has a moldedd cap and graduated dipstick all one piece.

Well, once more...You're right on the money..boy What a surprize !!

By the way, I did not get your comment about the injector pump. The injector on 1700 is external to the engine and uses same type of crankcase oil but it is separate and not common with the engine (I.e. engine oil does not lubricate the injector pump). injector pump takes bout 1/2 cup of oil to fill .I suppose if the main shaft seal on the injector pump fails, then that oil can go to timing gear cover but can hardly raise oil level in the crankcase by much. By that time you're "done.. did it" and the injector locked up. May be you are saying some how getting diesel fuel in to crankcase. Please clarify. Thanks.

 

[JB4310]

As JC points out.. you'll be needing UTF if that is a common sump machine.

Also.. i'm a bit concerned that you said that the crankcase was overfull.

Sometimes that indicates a leaky injector pump.. so keep an eye on that crankcase oil level IE.. I'd check it every hour for a few hours of runtime till i knew it wasn't changing much.. then daily.. etc..

If she starts 'making' oil.. then you need to adress the issue immediatly. don't want to alarm you.. just make it known.. etc..

Soundguy

Soundguy,
I hear ya, might not of known what you were talking about except I had a good lesson just this spring on the subject of overfilled crank cases, this one do to a tiny carburetor o-ring, took my Suzuki 250 cc 4-stroke dirt bike out after the winter and couldn't start it, actually towed it with a little wheel horse to get it to fire, when it started it smoked like all **** was venting out, long story short the case was filled to capacity, didn't figure it out right away cause the filler and dip stick are up high in the frame so the level read normal only hint was a strong smell of gas, those Jap 4-strokes are bullet proof but I thought this one had blown it's cookies for sure till a friend pointed me in the right direction, about a gallon and a half came out of that little crank case which normally holds a quart and a half.

Back to the tractor, the oil was so thick and black I don't think there was any fuel in there but I will keep an eye on it, I actually thinned the oil with diesel and let it run a little before I drained it to help flush it out, did that again today as I got the new filter and a funny thing happened the oil was still clean after an hour of running, I was surprised.

 

[JB4310]

O.K. that's about it for the unknowns for now, Thanks, John

Well I guess I spoke to soon, JC are you still out there!!! help! charging system down, new battery run down.
I'll understand if you had enough of me, but maybe you can help with a quick diagnosis, I'm not a mechanic but am pretty good at keeping things working, I do have a multi meter (analog, got a digital but have not figured it out) know how to do the basics, volts, continuity, opens and shorts.
The battery light never went on, checked the bulb and it's good checked the socket and it only has 10 volts with key on no change when running, I swapped the bulb with the oil light socket and it works, here's where it gets weird for me, I would think the bulb would light dimly with 10 volts, but weirder the battery idiot light socket has two wires, I'm naturally thinking one is hot one is ground since it's mounted in rubber, well one of the wires goes to the right side of the fuse panel and fuses are good but when the fuse is out there is still 10 volts to the socket, how can that be with only one wire going to the socket?
anyway tried to check alternator for output but not sure how, put meter to DC volts, put NEG on ground and tried POS on the 2 big posts and got nothing, tried smaller wires and got just 12 volts when engine running, I think that is just reading the battery, there's a big old looking regulator under the dash, where do I start. Thanks John

 

[JC-jetro]

Well I guess I spoke to soon, JC are you still out there!!! help! Thanks John

Yes John. I'm here. I just got done with my chores and have the boys in bed. I think I may know what the problem is. Let me collect my thoughts and post part of the manual for you and try to explain about the charging system. we'll be back. JC