Ford 1700 Hydraulic Pump

[JC-jetro]

I will keep this particular thread busy, since we are talking hydraulics. My 1500 is about the same thing...we all know that. Yesterday, my lift threw a little fit. It would "chatter" and slowly raise, but would not pick-up the load I was working with fully. Under no load, it would go up and down, but chattered on the way up. I fooled with it for a while and completed the task I was doing and went to take a look at it this afternoon....it's working fine now????

I had recently drained and replaced the fluid and cleaned the filter screen. One thing I did not do correctly (I hope) is purge the system. There is a small vent-screw on the top of the filter canister, which I opened a time or two and operated the lift, but nothing ever came out of this hole. Maybe some air, but no fluid and I assumed this was what the screw was for. What's up with that....if I had that screw backed-out a little, would I not have had some fluid coming out?

What is the correct procedure to purge it? I am thinking I had some air pass through the system, but I was sure I could get some fluid to come out of the top of the filter canister...should I?

Hey Old,

I don't believe you have purging issue. The pump inlet is always flooded with normal oil level above the pump inlet elevation. With a positive displacement pump (gear type in this application), the air will be sucked in the same as fluid and will be belched out in the transmission and then back to rear diffy where it is kept in atmospheric condition. I suspect your chattering is from your pressure relief valve on pump discharge piping close to your lift spool valve. if you have a liq filled gauge that is good for 3000 psi then you can measure the pressure where the system is reliving hyd fluid back to diffy. from memory I think the pressure setting is about 2400 psi. I have set mine around 2200 psi that is more than good enough to pick the heaviest implement. does is chatter about the max height or much before that?

jc,

 

[old1500]

It chattered all the way up. Went down smooth, but would chatter (more like a buzz) through the entire up-stroke loaded or not. I had the same thought that you mentioned...any air trapped in the system would work it's way through, but I was not sure of any necessary purging procedure. I realize now that it's not a "sealed" high pressure circuit and the waste is simply dumped back in the case. Wonder what that little bleed-screw is for on the top of the filter canister?

I'll see if it's okay today...maybe something was momentarily stuck.

 

[JC-jetro]

It chattered all the way up. Went down smooth, but would chatter (more like a buzz) through the entire up-stroke loaded or not. I had the same thought that you mentioned...any air trapped in the system would work it's way through, but I was not sure of any necessary purging procedure. I realize now that it's not a "sealed" high pressure circuit and the waste is simply dumped back in the case. Wonder what that little bleed-screw is for on the top of the filter canister?

I'll see if it's okay today...maybe something was momentarily stuck.

At least I'd inspect the relief mechanism for broken spring, it shpould not take it but a few minutes. you can take the top cap off and increase or decrease spring pressure hence lower or higher operating pressure. If the valve seat is damaged that might cause also the chattering.

JC,






This is where you measure the system pressure if you end up acquiring a liq filled gauge.

 

[old1500]

Here is a picture of what I have. The "double headed" bolts on the right side each contained a spring and ball. The longer (inside) fitting had the o-ring on the end like the one in your picture. That outer bolt was also hollow and had a spring and ball that inserts down inside the larger fitting against an orifice in the end of the larger fitting. (hope this make sense). All that looked just fine.

On the left side, just like yours, I have a pipe plug which would be the place to insert a gauge like you mentioned.

I made some effort to adjust the control in the center, which I suppose adjust the rate at which the lift travels. I am positive it has not been moved since it rolled off the assembly line. Mine does not have the knob like yours. There is a nut over the top of the shaft. Just under this nut is a knurled section that I suppose would be adjustable....if I have guts enough to try and get that outer nut lose. It's tight and I was in fear of twisting it off. so I left it alone for now.

Lift still works fine like it finally did yesterday.

 

[JFS2295]

I didn't spot this thread before I put my own up a few days ago. Boy is it relevant. What is it with 17** series all of a sudden! I might as well move into this thread so if people have issues in the future there is one good thread to read through.

From my posting:

>>>I've not run my 1710 for a few weeks and went to use it today but the hydraulics were not working well.

History Usually no problem with it, but one winter I did have an issue where the hydraulics would not work below freezing until the tractor warmed up, which I attributed to water inclusion. For the twenty-five years I've had this tractor the hydraulic fluid always turns milky after a few months even through its shedded. I've checked venting and sealing but it always gets milky, so I normally change the fluid and filter every year even with low hours. During the last few uses I noticed the FEL hydraulics were a little slower, even the bucket drop with the float position. Fluid was changed last spring and it probably only has 20 hours with it.

Today started it up (65ｰF) and the bucket would almost not move. Had a little jittering like it had air, too (shows 1/2 inch down on the dipstick). I could get it to move and curl, and it would lift heavy weight but very, very slowly. 3 PT was sluggish too. This unit has a Tesco remote valve as of a few years ago, FYI.

I HAD to use it for a short time so I did. I was going to change the hydraulic filter as its acting almost like it has a plugged filter (never had that before though), but since I was short on time and would rather change both fluid and filter together, I left it alone for now.

But here is the curious thing once again the FEL float is as slow as the powered hydraulics. I would have expected that to just dump into the reservoir of the gear case or bypass within the FEL circuitry. I probably should have tried dropping the bucket with the tractor not running, but didn't think of that until I was writing this.

Anyway, in a few days I'll be back to the farm to try to understand what is going on .....<<<<

Hopefully I'll be down there tomorrow and be able to start some checking into my problem.

 

[old1500]

Maybe somebody should write a song....."tis the season for hydro-trouble"...or something like that!

 

[JC-jetro]

Here is a picture of what I have. The "double headed" bolts on the right side each contained a spring and ball. The longer (inside) fitting had the o-ring on the end like the one in your picture. That outer bolt was also hollow and had a spring and ball that inserts down inside the larger fitting against an orifice in the end of the larger fitting. (hope this make sense). All that looked just fine.

On the left side, just like yours, I have a pipe plug which would be the place to insert a gauge like you mentioned.

I made some effort to adjust the control in the center, which I suppose adjust the rate at which the lift travels. I am positive it has not been moved since it rolled off the assembly line. Mine does not have the knob like yours. There is a nut over the top of the shaft. Just under this nut is a knurled section that I suppose would be adjustable....if I have guts enough to try and get that outer nut lose. It's tight and I was in fear of twisting it off. so I left it alone for now.

Lift still works fine like it finally did yesterday.

hey Old,

Looked at our picture. The one that you marked " Spring & ball checked" is not your " adjustable" pressure relief mechanism. it is not the same as I have pictured. what you saw is the picture below. The stiff spring and the ball on the right side is lift piston shock relief (not adjustable) back to diffy. The flimsy spring and the big ball is normal flow from to the top of lift piston. There is also another hole that allows oil entry in to cylinder chamber. That does not have a check valve but does have rate of return needle valve. when you lower you lift that is the unchecked path where oil goes back to diffy thru lift spool valve.



Follow the pump discharge on the right side of the tractor (smaller dia)out of the pump. It will go thru the relif valve like I pictured before it goes to the spool.

The "control in the center" is the rate of drop knob... yours does not have the knob.. but the same difference. That does not do anything at all to your lift. it only restrict the flow back to diffy hence making the arm drop faster or slower.

I really think it is best for you to get a gage and measure system pressure and as you increase the lift at some point the relief will chatter. You wanoo know at what pressure it happens.

JC,

 

[old1500]

Got U covered on all that. There is a difference in the 1500 and 1700 and I know I am gumming things all up here in the 1700 thread (sorry folks). The diagram posted on the CNN website has the correct picture of what I have on this 1500. I am sure it does what yours does...but the components are different. I know the smaller line is the output side of the pump and it does bolt right in the same place as yours does but my "guts" are different. I have not pulled that apart (as in removing the nut/bolt on the back side) yet to see if anything appears to be snafu'd, but that is what I plan to do next.

I am not insisting...for sure, but if you get a chance go over and look at the 1500 system and you will see that we may be just cousins and not brother-n-sister like I thought the 1500's/1700's were.

A gauge is "on my list" of things to get.

 

[old1500]

Well...I meant the "CNH" and not the "CNN" website, but you probably figured that out. I have the 05B05 control valve. I do not have #3 as shown on the 05B02 diagram.

I have three pictures attached.

 

[JC-jetro]

Well...I meant the "CNH" and not the "CNN" website, but you probably figured that out. I have the 05B05 control valve. I do not have #3 as shown on the 05B02 diagram.

I have three pictures attached.

well, you're right , the relief valve sure looks different. I went to CNH Website (I went to CNN first thugh) and downloaded yours and sure enough it looks exactly like my 1700 on the website. I attached the page to this posting. However it looks like does not matter. I'm sure if you take the cap off you will see a stiff spring and a conical shape valve ( relif). I bet ya a dollar that yours might use shim to adjust the pressure (a washer with the right dia can be used). It might uses shimslet say with certain thickness giving you about 50 psi. Add shims and you're increasing the pressure. Remove a shim and you're reducing the operating pressure by 50 psi. I looked at my IT manual pages and it shows 1500 exactly like my 1700.

JC,