Ford 1700, introduction, part deux

[ZR WON]

Greetings all!

Long time guest reader, first, well, second time poster. I have been reading about Ford 1700's in various capacities over the last 8+ months. My wife and I have built our dream home on ten acres, and needed a tractor to help with mowing the upper and lower pasture once we moved. Well, that happened (after a MUCH too long building, um, 'experience,' to be as politically correct as possible) on April 13th. Based on my Grandfather living in a town of less than 500, it was pretty easy to track down his old tractor, a 1979 Ford 1700. I remember riding on this as a little boy (five years old, dating myself a little ), have photos of me and 'Grandaddy;' I feel very blessed to have it back in the immediate family.

The tractor is in phenomenal shape for it's age, even the original seat doesn't have a crack. The previous owner still believes he has the original paperwork; I sure hope that's true. Having things in my Grandfathers writing would be pretty amazing. I still remember taking the key; it still had the same ring on it as when I was a little boy.. Its never spend a night outside, the blue is in great shape, the gray, as I'm sure other 1700 owners know, was a little worse for wear. I was able to remove the fenders and polish a majority of the rust stains out, but the inner portions were just too bad. With the intention of keeping everything as original as possible, I wire brushed the inner fenders, sprayed self etching primer and 'Ford Gray' from TSC last weekend. it certainly isn't a show paint job, but it looks infinitely better than it did. I've put about 10 hours on it mowing since purchase, almost everything functions. I must admit quite a bit of nostalgia mowing with it; knowing my Grandfather spent time on this unit is pretty special. I remember mowing his lawn towards the twilight of his life (he was too sick); funny how you sometimes don't realize special times when they are happening.

It has 1537 hours on it, and has been very well maintained for the most part, at least, from what I can tell. JC, feel like I already know you reading all your threads about the 1700, thanks so much for all the information! A couple of outstanding items I'm hoping for clarification on is the replacement of the oil on the injector pump (fortunately, my tractor has the drain hole tapped), a potential water pump issue, and horn.

Firstly, the injector pump. Reading several threads on the subject, I first opened the 'weep hole' (where the oil is supposed to be filled to before spilling out), VERY black oil started coming out. I replaced it and loosened the fill / vent, then the drain hole. Based on everything I read here, it must have been changed at least once in my life, because the old oil 2/3rd filled an ENTIRE blue Solo cup!!! Near as I can figure, there was around 10 oz of oil that I drained out. So much in fact, I almost capped it back off for fear that somehow I was draining oil from the pan (even though I've read over and again that can't be the case with this injector pump). I capped the drain plug and slowly started refilling with a turkey baster. at exactly 3oz, it started to come out the 'weep' hole. Question: Are we *sure* that 2-4oz of oil is all that it takes? The last thing I want to do is burn that pump up (it's pretty expensive to replace), and there is NO doubt it had much more oil before I drained. As I typed, it's likely it was changed in the past and overfilled, but I want to make absolutely sure.

The water pump started making noise when I was in the bottom field Friday at idle. It sounded exactly like a car with bad bearings in a water pump. I finished up mowing (hasn't overheated; the radiator has been boiled out recently and looks very clean inside), let it cool off. Next morning, grabbed the pulley and sure enough, a measurable amount of play. I have priced new pumps from several sources, ranging from $43-130, does anyone have a good resource? When I replace the water pump (this week), I plan to change the upper and lower radiator hose (original) and hopefully the thermostat. Do the offer different temperatures or is there only one? Speaking of water temperature, does anyone know what the different marks on the temp gauge indicates? This tractor usually runs right in the middle to one or two needles width higher.

The horn, well, call me ****, it's a pathetic excuse for one, but I would like all functions of the tractor to work. I can get it to 'cycle,' but it's strong to say it 'functions.' I'm guessing it's either a bad ground or just a bad horn. Lastly, it certainly appears to be a compromise in design that the battery covers a full third of the radiator opening. I think someone could modify that bracket to lower the battery and allow much more airflow to the radiator, which would aid in cooling, has anyone attempted such a modification?

Thanks in advance, I look forward to learning more about this fine tractor and offering insight when/wherever possible.

Brian A.
1979 1700 2wd

 

[Tabasco Jack]

That's great you were able to get your grandfather's tractor back. Check with NAPA for parts before going to a dealer. The carry the filters you'll need. Maybe hoses too.

 

[JC-jetro]

Brian,

I send an email and pics to a gentleman a few minutes ago. coincidentally his name was Brian as well but he said he owned a Ford 1300 rather 1700. was that you? I can perhaps help you with questions you had.

1- I wonder why you had so much oil in the injector. Mine fill with just about 2 oz before clean oil come out f level hole.
2- water pump and I have not had that issue to change mine yet. I have not looked fora source but fleabay might not be a bad choice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Pump-...71-/121389514117?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

3- please refer to link below for temp. Best thing is to compare temp with a non contact Infra Red temperature gauge.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...179639-how-much-temp-too-much.html?highlight=

4- Horn, get an aligator clip and a piece of wire, connect directly from battery positive terminal to the connector o the horn to see id it sounds. Body of the horn is negative (ie. grounded) if it sounds then trace back the wire to the switch to see when you lose continuity.

5- Make sure the screen is clean in front of the battery. air is supplied from 3 sides and really don't think battery location si a bif detriment to air flow. Most tractors have almost the same design also. There is no slip clutch for the fan blade, make sure that belt is tight but not overly tight. You do not want slippage and at the same time damage to water pump front seal/bearing by being too tight of a belt tension,

JC,

 

[Fawken]

That's a great story. And the 1700 is a great machine. I will say that tractors are like people- the older they get the more TLC they need to keep running and the less they can tolerate being left out in the elements. Keep in inside when not in use. Check your fluids and filters often and she'll serve you well. My 1100 has done so and it's the little sister of the 1700. 32 years and 4300 hours.

 

[square1]

My tractor ran quite a bit cooler after replacing the water pump. Before the new pump it ran a tick under the top end of the normal range without a load and would regularly venture into the Hot range under load of a 5' brush hog in the cool of morning. After the pump replacement it runs a tick over 50% without a load, and a tick under the top of the normal range while brush hogging. Once the ambient temps hit mid 70s to 80, it heads to the top of the Hot range and I'm done.

I went with this water pump. The gasket came with it. No complaints. The easiest water pump change in my life
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBA14501607...147?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541f2d4053

I was thinking the same thing yesterday about the battery location as I tried to completely clean my radiator while brush hogging. Gauging by the debris field on the radiator it does get even draw through the entire core but that battery location makes it harder to to get everything cleaned off.

 

[ZR WON]

Brian,

I send an email and pics to a gentleman a few minutes ago. coincidentally his name was Brian as well but he said he owned a Ford 1300 rather 1700. was that you? I can perhaps help you with questions you had.

1- I wonder why you had so much oil in the injector. Mine fill with just about 2 oz before clean oil come out f level hole.
2- water pump and I have not had that issue to change mine yet. I have not looked fora source but fleabay might not be a bad choice.

Water Pump Ford 1500 1700 1900 SBA145016071 | eBay

3- please refer to link below for temp. Best thing is to compare temp with a non contact Infra Red temperature gauge.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...179639-how-much-temp-too-much.html?highlight=

4- Horn, get an aligator clip and a piece of wire, connect directly from battery positive terminal to the connector o the horn to see id it sounds. Body of the horn is negative (ie. grounded) if it sounds then trace back the wire to the switch to see when you lose continuity.

5- Make sure the screen is clean in front of the battery. air is supplied from 3 sides and really don't think battery location si a bif detriment to air flow. Most tractors have almost the same design also. There is no slip clutch for the fan blade, make sure that belt is tight but not overly tight. You do not want slippage and at the same time damage to water pump front seal/bearing by being too tight of a belt tension,

JC,

JC, et al:

Thanks for the responses, I am a different Brian. The water pump change out looks very easy; will be interesting to see if it affects the temperature at all. I plan to fill it with the old 'green' coolant, distilled water, and a bottle of Redline WaterWetter. Has anyone used that in a tractor, can't imagine that would cause any issue?!?! What is the typical mix of water/anti-freeze? This tractor will remain inside, the only time I can see it getting out in the snow would be if I got a snow blower attachment (which is doubtful since I have a snowblower already). I do have an IR temp gauge, will use that and get an idea of where the tractor is really running temp wise based on the gauge.

Will try your approach on the horn; not a huge deal, as mentioned, just like everything to work . No idea on the oil in the injector pump, as mentioned, I simply want to make absolutely sure I do not damage, because again, there was a LOT more oil drained vs. what I put back in. Another thing I forgot to ask: the hydraulic / gearbox oil was supposedly changed every other year by the previous owner (I shined a light down in the fill hole on top of the gear box and believe it; the fluid looks very clean and no noticeable wear on the visible gears), but he mentioned nothing about cleaning the filter. I have done a search and saw some photos of the hydraulic filter, but no real instructions on where it is. Question: do you have to drain the oil to remove the filter? If so, based on the look of the oil, I'll probably wait to change at the end of this season. What type of gear oil do people typically use?

Previous owner used Rotella 15w40 synthetic in the engine, do people have much experience with that vs. its conventional brother? I took off the oil filler cap and shined a light inside; the valvetrain looks very clean. Speaking of valvetrain, I have read that the valves should be adjusted every 1000 hours, what exactly does that entail? I have extensive knowledge of gasoline powered engines, but my experience with diesels is limited.

Finally, I have read where people are using rototillers with 1700s, what models work and what is the price point?

Thanks again to all responses so far!

Brian A.
1979 1700 2wd

 

[JC-jetro]

Brian,

-I have used automotive 50% mix EG (Ethylene Glycol) in my rig and never had an issue. Being more environmentally friendly and you can use PE (Propylene Glycol) that is not toxic to environment and animal. They put PG in cake mix that I don't ever buy.

- I have thread about injector oil with cut out of Owner's manual that you can search. it goes thru explaining drain, fill and level plug and oil replacement amount should be to the level of middle or level plug.

- Every other year seems to be excessive for hyd oil change. Mine was changed once by me after 20 years. By dip stick hole inspection my tractor hyd oil was pristine but crude gets collected in the bottom of diffy. Opening drain in the bottom of diffy caused no oil spillage as the floor of diffy was gonked up. Made a hook out of a wire and pulled a dead rat looking from the hole and then oil started coming out. I have used TSC Mystic and NH oil originally. Both appears to have worked the same for me although some guys reported pto issue using with any oil other than NH OEM oil.

- I do use dino (Non-Synthetic) Rotella 15W40 and never had any issue. I change oil every 30 to 40 hrs.

-Most valve jobs need to be done with cold engine and #1 piston on TDC and a proper sequence. Owner manual calls for doing it hot for 1700. It is like trying to shave and trim your mustache with a razor blade while riding a horse I would not be doing that. I checked it cold for with a feeler gauge for intake and exhaust valve and it is pretty close to the manufacturer Spec so I did not dork with it further. Incorrect adjustment and you might damage piston or bend a valve. I believe 1700 is an interference engine by inspection of the removed head and looking under. I really like non-interference engines better.Make sure holding nut on the rocker arm is tight and not lose and I always have my ears on for a funny noise. Valve adjustment on it is the same as gas engine without hydraulic lifters.

- I do have a 5 foot King kutter gear driven roto tiller that bought 7 years ago brand new from TSC for $1199. it is a perfect match. field grass can be very tough so I usually use my potato plow $120 from TSC to break and loosen the ground first before roto-tilling.


JC,

 

[ZR WON]

JC, et al:

Finished up with the water pump (and upper/lower radiator hose replacement); honestly, I cannot believe the original water pump shaft didn't fall out it was so loose. It was making enough noise at idle that it was noticeable, but I never would have guessed it would have been that loose without leaking. The water pump I got was a perfect bolt in (Square1, I agree, was a pretty simple change!), the hoses fit just fine too. I used the green coolant, distilled water and a half bottle of Redline Water Wetter. I moved it out of the garage, let it idle for a bit, then revved to 2450RPM for 15 minutes just to make sure there were no issues (would rather have something happen right outside the garage vs. in the bottom field). Granted this was with no load, but it didn't even get up to halfway on the gauge (usually goes to right at halfway and stayed there to two needles width above), perhaps it will run a bit cooler overall. Question: Is there a thermostat? I figured it was between block and top radiator hose (but again, my exposure to diesels is limited).

I will check the valves; solid lifters, being an old high performance Chevy guy, I've done that a time or two. Hate to read it's an interference engine, but suppose I'm not surprised. Will wait on the gear/hydraulic oil until the end of this season (will use NH variety). I did see a 5' King Kutter rototiller at RK yesterday, but it's gone up a bit in price since you purchased ($1,899.00). I ended up just paying four hours for a rental rear tine walk behind tiller; worked just fine this year given I was pretty late in getting the garden in. I did find a source for a new flasher switch (didn't need the switch, but the actual knob had cracked and was lost years ago), also a new year red tail lamp for the rear fender.

Brian A.
1979 1700 2wd

 

[Fawken]

Yes, I remember a thermostat. Is where you said. Of course, a lot of guys just took them out which I prefer not to do.

 

[ZR WON]

All:

Does anyone have a good source where an 'original,' or at least, an 'original looking' muffler can be purchased? I got one from the same place as the water pump/upper/lower radiator hose, and it didn't fit, at all. Basically, the exhaust piping needed to extend straight out of the head further before the 90 degree up to clear the hood. I know you can source one that will 'work' from TSC/ RK, but it doesn't look 'original.' The reason for changing is the extension pipe was bend to the point of being kinked, and while I easily have a muffler shop make a new one, this tractor seems very loud (even wearing ear plugs). Am I expecting too much or is it possible the original muffler has seen better days? With old cars, the leaded gas would literally eat the muffler from the inside out, in doing so, would get louder and louder with age. As always, any and all thoughts are appreciated!

Brian A.
1979 1700 2wd