Ford 3000 finding Top Dead Centre on cylinder 1

[FordnMassey]

Hi,

I'm about to start working on the injection pump on my Ford 3000, 1967, diesel, Simms/Minimec injection pump.

To do so, I have to turn the engine to the 19deg btdc mark on the flywheel and compression stroke cylinder 1.

The only way I can see to know it's compression stroke for cylinder 1 is to remove the valve cover and sight both valves closed on cylinder 1. Is this correct?

Thanks in advance.

 

[rScotty]

That's the way I time things all engines. But wait, a lot of those old Fords were made in continental Europe. Is the #1 cylinder the one farthest forward or the one closest to the operator? The continental European custom is sometimes backwards from ours.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to worry about compression stroke, but that's your choice. If you plan to "work on the pump" to the degree that timing marks are in play, you need to take the cover off that's in front of the pump drive gear anyway, so just turn the motor over until the pump timing marks are in view. Number one will be on compression stroke at that point.

 

[TractorTech]

Look on the RH side of the bellhousing under the engine. There is a oblong cover held on with a screw. That will give you access to the flywheel and the timing marks. Turn the engine over until you see the timing marks etched into the flywheel to find TDC.

BTW, #1 is the front cylinder.

 

[TractorTech]

Look on the RH side of the bellhousing under the engine. There is a oblong cover held on with a screw. That will give you access to the flywheel and the timing marks. Turn the engine over until you see the timing marks etched into the flywheel to find TDC. BTW, #1 is the front cylinder

 

[jaxs]

Look on the RH side of the bellhousing under the engine. There is a oblong cover held on with a screw. That will give you access to the flywheel and the timing marks. Turn the engine over until you see the timing marks etched into the flywheel to find TDC. BTW, #1 is the front cylinder

Jolly,jolly but to answer op's question, how will he know it's on compression stroke?

 

[thepumpguysc]

If ur still stumped, remove the cover in front of the pump..
Nor remove the side cover on the pump..
When #1 inside the pump just starts to rise, STOP.
(#1 is closest to the radiator)
Now go look inside the engine (where u took off the cover)
At the 12-1:00 position is a scribe line (timing mark)
Keep rotating the engine until that timing mark on the drive lines up with the timing mark on the pump housing boss..
I hope this helps..

 

[FordnMassey]

If ur still stumped, remove the cover in front of the pump..
Nor remove the side cover on the pump..
When #1 inside the pump just starts to rise, STOP.
(#1 is closest to the radiator)
Now go look inside the engine (where u took off the cover)
At the 12-1:00 position is a scribe line (timing mark)
Keep rotating the engine until that timing mark on the drive lines up with the timing mark on the pump housing boss..
I hope this helps..

Thanks thepumpguysc. That makes sense. The injection pump will be injecting cylinder 1 when cylinder 1 is on its compression stroke.
That saves me lifting the rocker/valve cover.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Glad it makes sense..
Stick with me kid, I’ll learn ya sumpin.. (lol)
R u planning on working the inj pump yourself.??
They aren’t as complicated as some inj pumps.. BUT.. u do need the splined socket to remove the delivery valve holders AND u HAVE TO KNOW the torque..
Like everything else, it needs to be disassembled in sequence.. I hope u have a tear down and rebuild manual..
Good luck

 

[Paystar]

What a coincidence. I just got a 67 3000. Mines a Basildon England build.

How reliable are those Simms inline pumps? Any preventative maintenance I should be doing to prolong it's life?

 

[rScotty]

What a coincidence. I just got a 67 3000. Mines a Basildon England build.

How reliable are those Simms inline pumps? Any preventative maintenance I should be doing to prolong it's life?

I've been wondering the same thing. My 2007 JD310SG is coming up on 6000 hours. It's always had decent care and clean fuel.... but how long is a reasonable assumption for an injector pump to last... and how do they tend to wear?

The Kubota is the same year but only has a thousand hours, so I expect everything on it to outlast me.
rScotty

 

[Paystar]

I always run Howes in my fuel for the added lubricity. But I also was recently told those Simms pumps have their own oil resevoir and you need to change oil in them independent of the engine?

I just ordered all the manuals for it, so just waiting on those. The guy that restored it said he changed all the fluids but I'd still like to go all through it myself.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes, the pump has its own oil res.
On the bottom of the pump is the drain screw..
The large nut on top of the governor is where u add/fill with oil..
The screw on the side is the full mark..
They say, change the pump oil at the same time u change the engine oil..
But we all know how that can go for extended periods of time..
“IF” u want it to last, change the pump oil 2x a year.
Don’t worry about over filling it.. there is a vent that will let the excess drip out while running..

 

[Jerry/MT]

Look on the RH side of the bellhousing under the engine. There is a oblong cover held on with a screw. That will give you access to the flywheel and the timing marks. Turn the engine over until you see the timing marks etched into the flywheel to find TDC. BTW, #1 is the front cylinder

The 4 stroke flywheel goes through top dead center on the #1 cylinder compression once every two revolutions; once on compression stroke and once on the exhaust .

So either remove an injector to feel when #1 is on the compression stroke or look for when the intake and exhaust valve are both closed. on #1.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I know there’s some “old salts” here that have been doing the same thing, the same way for 50 years..
So lemme learn ya somethin.
If your working on an engine that has an injection pump WITH a removable side cover.. u can remove the cover and while rotating the engine, BY HAND.. U can watch each cylinder go thru the firing order..
THIS ONLY WORKS IF NOBODY HAS BEEN INTO THE PUMP..
I think we’ve ALL been there.. gotta go fix a machine because “BRIAN” just put a pump on and now it won’t run..
Back to the instructions..
When #1 JUST STARTS TO RISE..STOP..
On this posters pump, he has timing marks on the front(drive) on the pump..@ 12-1:00, looking inside the cover hole..
According to the masses, there’s degree marks on the flywheel.. weather they’re on the left side, the right side or underneath, they’re supposed to be there..
Find them and keep rotating the engine by hand until the desired * number is reached and STOP..(19*.?)
Now look inside the cover hole for the timing marks on the pump.. with some luck, they’ll be lined up..
IF NOT, u KNOW that the engine is set right (19*) so when u get ready to install the freshly sealed pump, all ya gotta do is line up the lines and lock it down..
I hope this helps anyone that’s fought a pump before..

And if u have an engine that doesn’t have timing marks anywhere on it… I gotta fix for THAT too..

 

[thepumpguysc]

Another thing that’s VERY IMPORTANT IS ::
TURNING THE ENGINE IN THE CORRECT NORMAL ROTATION.!!!
This is where knowing the firing order is important..
It’s not that difficult to find..
It’s usually stamped on the intake manifold..
So now u got the side cover off the pump and your rotating the engine by hand,
and the firing order is 1-3-4-2..& # 3 is coming up, the next one to move SHOULD BE #4.. if it’s not, your going the wrong way ..
U can also bump the starter and watch the fan.. but that’s not 100% all the time..more often than not, tho..

 

[FordnMassey]

Glad it makes sense..
Stick with me kid, I’ll learn ya sumpin.. (lol)
R u planning on working the inj pump yourself.??
They aren’t as complicated as some inj pumps.. BUT.. u do need the splined socket to remove the delivery valve holders AND u HAVE TO KNOW the torque..
Like everything else, it needs to be disassembled in sequence.. I hope u have a tear down and rebuild manual..
Good luck

Hi,
Thanks for the tips.
Do you know how I can source the plined driver? I have access to Bare Co and Sparex, but not most of the suppliers you have available as I'm in Australia.
What torque is listed for those element retainers on the Minimec?

 

[rScotty]

Worst case: What's it cost to ship a pump up to the pump guy and back?
I'm more than casually curious. Some day that might be any of us half a world away.
rScotty

 

[FordnMassey]

Worst case: What's it cost to ship a pump up to the pump guy and back?
I'm more than casually curious. Some day that might be any of us half a world away.
rScotty

Unfortunately, freight in and out of the US from Australia is brutally expensive.
There's local injection pump technicians that can work on it. But I'm a keen enthusiast of working on old machines, so I'm interested in having a go myself.

 

[FordnMassey]

Glad it makes sense..
Stick with me kid, I’ll learn ya sumpin.. (lol)
R u planning on working the inj pump yourself.??
They aren’t as complicated as some inj pumps.. BUT.. u do need the splined socket to remove the delivery valve holders AND u HAVE TO KNOW the torque..
Like everything else, it needs to be disassembled in sequence.. I hope u have a tear down and rebuild manual..
Good luck

Hi,
Any chance you have that torque setting for the delivery valve holders?