Ford 4630 Hydraulic Questions:

[straightsix240]

Hello all:


I've got a Ford 4630 with a Bush Hog brand 2425QT Loader and a 3rd function valve for remote hydraulics on the rear of the tractor.

The 3rd function valve has a history of blowing out the o-ring seals when under a load, so the previous owner told me. Just yesterday when the tractor was still cold and I scooped up a light load of wood chips with the frond end loader, I heard a small 'pop' and saw fluid running out the side of the 3rd function valve.

Why would this valve have a tendency to blow out the seals?

How, or can I, fix this?

I don't need the 3rd function valve right now, so would it be easier to just remove the valve for now? How would I cover the holes over the trans case on the tractor?

Any advice about this would be greatly appreciated.

I might want to add a 3rd function valve to the front end of this tractor in the future, to run a grapple, if that changes what I might do here.


Thank you!
David Hammond

 

[J_J]

Show a picture of your 3rd function.

In a 3rd function valve setup, you should be able to take the INPUT hose and the OUT hose and connect them together.

 

[straightsix240]

That's exactly what I thought, but when I went to do that, I found out the 3rd function valve is open to the trans/case of the tractor. There are 9 O-rings between the tractor and an aluminum plate with holes in it, then 9 more O-rings between the al. plate and the valve. I know almost nothing about hydraulics, so maybe my terminology isn't correct.

Here's a link to a picture like my 3rd valve:

Ford Tractor Auxiliary Hydraulic Valve

And this is the aluminum adaptor plate with the O-rings:

Ford Tractor Hydraulic Adapter Kit - HP267600

Thanks JJ.

David

 

[J_J]

There are many kinds of 3rd function valves.

A 3rd function valve is any valve that performs a hyd function, be it a solenoid or a lever type valve.

Your 3rd function appears to be tractor specific to your tractor model or a series of tractors might use the same kit.

From looking at your kit, it might be difficult to remove and block off the ports .

Why do you want to remove the 3rd function. You don't have to use it for anything is particular, do you.

If the valve completes the hyd circuit and doesn't leak, then I would just leave it in place.

 

[straightsix240]

Well, my problem is this 3ed valve is leaking terribly. I traded my neighbor some work for this tractor and he said it has a tendency to blow out the seals in this valve, which it did about three days ago. Why would a valve like this tend to blow out the seals?

I don't want to get rid of the valve, I may want to use it in the future, I just thought I might be able to temporarily bypass it until I could really get it fixed, but with it open to the trans, I don't know what I need to do.

David

 

[straightsix240]

Anybody got any ideas why this valve blows the o-rings out occasionally? Do I need some sort of pressure relief valve in the system to protect the o-ring seals?

 

[J_J]

The valve may be seeing more pressure than it is designed for.

Should something block the flow from a hyd pump and the relief can't handle the relief pressure, something will happen, be it a blown hose, valve cracked, pump exploded, etc. You might install a pressure gage in the hyd system and monitor the pressures.

Sometimes hyd systems generate high spikes, much higher that the norm.

Perhaps a manual for the hyd would help.

 

[Tx Jim]

If I'm understanding(guessing) the correct place of the hyd leak Plate #13 is used when tractor has no remote valves. Are you replacing the seals(o-rings) with the correct parts(parts key #42 2nd photo)??

 

[Harry in Ky]

You already have a relief valve built into the pump. It should be set at about 2500 psi. As for the leak; a couple things come to mind. Your picture shows a power beyond block (which I assume is under the spool valve) with three ports. These blocks are supplied with only two ports as well, the two port style requiring a separate sump return of your choosing. Is yours a two or three port block? Another thing is the size of the orings under the spool valve and how good a match they are to the size of the machined spaces they fit into. One more thing is the length of the mounting bolts. When adding custom parts such as these, the bolts need to be the correct length to assure the valve bodies are tight. If one or more of the bolts is so much as one thread too long, the bolt can bottom out and feel tight but not supply the compression needed.

 

[ETpilot]

I have a 4610 and I installed a similar hydraulic manifold, different part number, to feed my FEL valve.

You need to get the installation instructions for your manifold assemby and verify that your installation is proper. The instructions for my installation cautions that I had to use a 3 port valve with power beyond. Use of a 2 port valve, which appears what you are using, would cause pressurization of the valve whenever the 3PH is used. This would lead to valve leakage and possibly valve housing failure. This may be your problem. The manifold is installed after the hyraulic pump and before the 3PH.

When I remove my FEL, I connect a hose between the pressure and return ports going to the manifold. It has worked fine for many years with no issues.

Get the installation instructions and verify your installation is correct.

 

[straightsix240]

I haven't replaced any o-rings, yet, but the previous owner did and I don't know if he just went to NAPA or actually ordered the replacements...

 

[straightsix240]

My power beyond block, I think, only has two ports, but I need to go check. That's a good point about the bolts, I'll have to check on that.

 

[straightsix240]

Thanks ETpilot! What you're saying sounds suspiciously like what might be my problem. I need to check on the valve when I go to the barn to feed the cows this afternoon, then I'll check back here. I think it's a two port.

I had a bale of hay on the back of the Ford on a set of 3PH pallet forks as ballast when I was moving the wood chips. I didn't need the ballast it was just already on the tractor. So this 2 port/3 port difference and a problem with pressure related to the 3PH sounds like it just might be what's wrong.

Thanks a whole lot for taking the time to respond! I'll update later...

David

 

[straightsix240]

Ok, I checked the power beyond block, (if that is the correct term for the aluminum block below the valve with the operating lever) and it only has two ports. There is one small allen screw on one side of the block as well.

Where is a good place to get a three port block, if that's what I need? Then, where would that third port go? Do these blocks come with instructions, I guess?

I got some pictures that I'll try to get posted soon; I'm not very handy with a camera and computer...

Thanks!
David

 

[ETpilot]

Ok, I checked the power beyond block, (if that is the correct term for the aluminum block below the valve with the operating lever) and it only has two ports. There is one small allen screw on one side of the block as well.

Where is a good place to get a three port block, if that's what I need? Then, where would that third port go? Do these blocks come with instructions, I guess?



I got some pictures that I'll try to get posted soon; I'm not very handy with a camera and computer...

Thanks!
David

Posting a picture may help. I have attached a picture of my installation. Originally my valve, in the picture, sat on top of the accessory plate. Installing the hydraulic manifold required removing the valve, installing the manifold then reinstalling the valve on top of the manifold. The manifold has 2 ports that I use to feed the FEL valve which is a power beyond valve. The 2 hoses you see in the picture go to the FEL valve. When the FEL is removed, I have a short hose that I use to connect these 2 hoses to keep the fluid flowing. Hope this helps.

What you refer to as the power beyond block is actually your hydraulic manifold. Or the adapter as pictured in your second link in your post #3. It should have 2 ports. According to my installation, the valve that connnect to these 2 ports should be a power beyond valve, which has the 3 ports; pressure, return, and PB. If the valve is not being used, then the 2 ports have to be joined to keep the fluid flowing.

My use of the terms 2 port and 3 port may have been confusing. Post or PM me your email and I will send you my installation instructions. You can use it as a reference but you really need to review the installation instructions for your particular model manifold.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Remember, the loader valve needs to be power beyond capable to begin with, meaning it has to have three ports connected to the tractor. The number of ports in the aluminum block is not critical as long as the sump return from the loader valve has a free passage to hydraulic reservoir. You can fabricate a return port into the fill port on the back of the rear main housing if you have to, or some other existing place on the tractor, although there are few such options on most 30 series tractors.

 

[straightsix240]

This is the remote valve that is leaking. There are two hoses coming into the aluminum block (the manifold). Then there are two hoses leaving the valve to the two remote connections above the 3PH.



This is the other side of the remote valve; here you can see the two hoses leaving the actual valve to the remote connections above the 3PH.



This is the FEL valve for reference. There is a hydraulic hose that enters the rear end of the tractor, you can see it in the first picture I posted in this message. I think this comes from the FEL valve, but I'm going to go out and double check that now.

Thanks for the help guys!
David

 

[straightsix240]

Ok here's the plumbing diagram after scraping some grease off to figure out which hoses go where. Part of my confusion is that I assumed the plumbing started at the FEL valve, then went to this manifold/remote valve... Obviously not, everything starts with this manifold, then the remote valve, then the FEL valve.


Starting at the manifold (1st picture in my last reply):

Two hoses leave the manifold. Looking at the picture above: the hose on the left, (which is the right side of the tractor from a driver's point of view), goes to the BYD plug on the FEL valve.

The second hose on the manifold goes to the IN plug on the FEL valve.


The two hose coming out of the remote valve go to the two remote connections above the 3PH.


Then from the FEL valve there are seven hoses:

Four go to the FEL.

The IN and BYD come from the manifold.

The OUT goes to the sump return.


Is this correctly plumbed? Not sure from your diagram ETpilot...


Gonna try to call a dealer and see if I can find out some info, at least find an o-ring kit for the manifold cause I think I need that regardless if this is plumbed right.

Thanks!
David

 

[straightsix240]

One more note: the second hose on the manifold, as I referred to it above, (that goes to the IN plug on the FEL valve), is marked P on the manifold.

 

[Harry in Ky]

It all sounds correct to me, providing the two hoses between the aluminum block and the in and byd ports of the loader valve are correct. The flow from the block should go to the in port of the loader valve. If that's the case, your plumbing should be right, and the leak comes back to the fit of the orings under the remote valve.