Ford 5000 Engine RPM

[browndd1]

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Just had my simms pump rebuilt and turned up. Will turning up the pump cause the engine to turn more rpm? The tach is pegged while the throttle is wide open and the engine misfires while wide open with no load on it. Timing is set to 19 btdc.

Thanks

 

[whodat526]

did u have the injectors rebuilt and the pressures reset on them when u did the pump and even with the pump turned up it should dont rev anymore than it did before

 

[browndd1]

Replaced all 4 injectors with rebuilt ones. The tractor does not miss a beat wide open going down the road high range 8th gear but the tach is showing 3000 rpm wide open. Valves, compression?

 

[whodat526]

could be compression

 

[Soundguy]

could be compression

might be whoever rebuilt the pump dinked with the governor...

soundguy

 

[Jerry/MT]

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Just had my simms pump rebuilt and turned up. Will turning up the pump cause the engine to turn more rpm? The tach is pegged while the throttle is wide open and the engine misfires while wide open with no load on it. Timing is set to 19 btdc.

Thanks

I'll just comment in generalities because I don't know the details of your engine and pump and this applies to a normally aspirated engine which I believe you have as the OEM in tractor..

All "turning up" will do is raise the max fuel limit and that only works if the machine is derated (reduced max fuel flow and smaller injectors)to begin with.( an example would be the Ford 3910 vs the Ford 4610 with their 201 cu in, 3 cylinder engine). Some times you need to have bigger injectors to pass the increased flow of the pump.
On a diesel, the limitation on max power is when the engine can't burn all the fuel that the pump is supplying. (Not withstanding any material temperature and loads limitations.) Adding more fuel only makes more unburned fuel. This shows up as black smoke in the exhaust. Increasing the rpm may help some but because the power curve (HP vs rpm) is beginning to turn flat with increasing rpm due to loss of volumetric efficiency, the incremental power improvement is less. (The pressure losses in the induction system , manifold, valves, etc are getting large and the air charge in the cylinder is not increasing very much with increasing rpm.)

My gut feel is that your 5000 was rated at max power all ready and if you want to increase the power you'll need an after market turbo but that can back you into a whole bunch of internal engine changes to get engine life and reliability. The cheapest way to get more power when you do not have a derated engine is to buy a tractor with a bigger engine.

As far as the missing is concerned, I would check the compression and the injection timing because that's what starts the fuel burning at the proper point in the stroke. Going down the road in high gear is not running at max power. It may be max rpm but it's not max power.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. adding a turbo to a 5000 changes it from a 70hp machine to something that can twist the crank off if not carefull. i've heard of 30-35hp increases.. ( befor ethe crank wrung off.. )

soundguy

 

[whodat526]

yep.. adding a turbo to a 5000 changes it from a 70hp machine to something that can twist the crank off if not carefull. i've heard of 30-35hp increases.. ( befor ethe crank wrung off.. )

soundguy

u can take a turbo off of a 7000 and install it on to a 5000 and not do any damge oversees u will see many 5000 with turbos i know a guy that has three he imported from holand that has turbos

 

[Soundguy]

u can take a turbo off of a 7000 and install it on to a 5000 and not do any damge oversees u will see many 5000 with turbos i know a guy that has three he imported from holand that has turbos

there's adding a turbo, then ther's adding a turbo and turning it up far,

one of the members here mentioned he did that on a 5000 and got it to dyno out at 105hp or so... shortly anyway..

M&W were popular kits for the 5000 etc...


soundguy

 

[whodat526]

there's adding a turbo, then ther's adding a turbo and turning it up far,

one of the members here mentioned he did that on a 5000 and got it to dyno out at 105hp or so... shortly anyway..

M&W were popular kits for the 5000 etc...


soundguy

thats just going over board if u need a 100 hp tractor u should have bought a 100hp tractor i dont like turning up pumps or adding turbos anyways if u have to do that u need a different tractor

 

[Soundguy]

thats just going over board if u need a 100 hp tractor u should have bought a 100hp tractor i dont like turning up pumps or adding turbos anyways if u have to do that u need a different tractor

he turbo itself isn't a problem.. it makes an engine more efficient than naturally aspirated. t-charged machines run in higher altitudes don't suffer the losses of NA machines..e tc.

it's when you get happy with the smoke screw, and have a way to force feed it air that you can get into trouble.

but yeah.. i agree.. if you have a 33hp tractor and need 45.. get a 45hp tractor and kee the 33 for light jobs or sell / trade..

soundguy

 

[Jerry/MT]

thats just going over board if u need a 100 hp tractor u should have bought a 100hp tractor i dont like turning up pumps or adding turbos anyways if u have to do that u need a different tractor

Amen to that!

 

[Jerry/MT]

he turbo itself isn't a problem.. it makes an engine more efficient than naturally aspirated. t-charged machines run in higher altitudes don't suffer the losses of NA machines..e tc.

it's when you get happy with the smoke screw, and have a way to force feed it air that you can get into trouble.

but yeah.. i agree.. if you have a 33hp tractor and need 45.. get a 45hp tractor and kee the 33 for light jobs or sell / trade..

soundguy

Turboing a tractor engine that wasn't designed to be uprated is a sure way to have reliability and engine life problems. Turboing increase the airflow and thus increases the power.The turboed engines, unless the induction system is redesigned to be larger, suffer the same loss relationships as the NA engine. Some of this is overcome with boost and some with the increase max temperatures. Most of the efficency gain is from the later. In general, the higher the max temperature, the more the thermal efficency increases.

The loads and temperatures on the componets increase (that's goes along with the power increase) when you boost a normally aspirated engine and you will find the the weakest link in the engine when you do this. The same with "turning up the wick". If you know that the engine bill of materials uses all the same components in the derated engine as in the uprated engine (cooling oil jet size, oil pump size, piston crown materials and coatings, etc etc) then you can safely turn up the pump. The engine won't be as durable as the de-rated model but it won't be any worse then the up rated model. (That says nothing about the increased loads on the drive lines for which the same logic holds.) Most of this type of info rests with whoever designed the machine and this info is not generally published.

You can "hot rod" any engine. The real question is how long will it last. The days of the over designed engine are in the past. Modern design technology and design and manufacturings costs drive engine development costs and so the margins on durability are set to meet the guarantees and the design life for the machine. Wan't more power, buy more power from the get go.

 

[Soundguy]

i for sure wouldn't try to up tune a modern engine.. they are already built to just barely meet thier rated needs as it is.

when this trhead started, ie.. with the ford 5000 in mind, that's what my scope was limited to. there were comercial upgrade kits for it via M&W for turbo.. plus the 7000 was essentially a 5000 with a turbo ( ok.. a lil mor ethan that.. but essentially.. )

soundguy