ford 8n will not fire

[J_J]

Do you want to keep it stock or modify or change over to 12 v system?

Are you going to keep the tractor?

 

[catfishonly]

JJ the tractor was already converted to 12volts.i dont have the parts to put it back to 6volt.

 

[RickB]

RickB,

If you want to put me on your ignore list, go for it.

Done.

 

[J_J]

You could go with the EI, and never have to change points, but it does cost a few bucks. It is probably designed to work at a min voltage of around 8.5 v

 

[catfishonly]

Yes i am going to keep the tractor but when i go out to start it i want it to start.I dont want to have to keep messing around with the points.BUT my question is wil this take care of the problem that i have it is fire in between 1243 inside the cap it is delayed like it is out of time.What i am saying is it fires in between 1 and 2 and on 2it fires in between 2 and 3. How do i know this i cut the side out of an old cap last night and used a test light and while cranking the motor i got spark on the rotor button and down the button.but when i held it close to the brass on 1 and 2 it fired past them not on them.I dont mind spending $150 for the EI as long as it takes care of the problem.and yes it already has the 12 volt coil and alternater

 

[Egon]

Sounds like it's time to find the timing marks, set the distributor and
dig out a timing light.:thumbsup:

 

[Scotty370]

Sounds like it's time to find the timing marks, set the distributor and
dig out a timing light.:thumbsup:

Ditto that! New wires, cap (which I believe you had) and special attention to the firing order! Internal combustion engines aren't that complex when you break them down to the basics, Compression, Fuel, and Spark.......... ~Scotty

 

[Soundguy]

RickB,

I was probably building electronic circuit before you were even born. .

JJ.. rickb is likey very close to your age...
what we are telling you is what we have seen and dealt with day in and day out on other ford boards.

ei and 6v causes significant disapointment issues with owners. 12v and ei.. not so much.

the front mount dizzy just complicates the issue further since, if you keep the squre coil , you are limited to a 6v coil needing a resistor to run on 6v.. or a 12v coil needing a resistor to run on 12v... a ver un-ideal setup IMHO...

I've no doubt 6v and ei on a rebuilt front mount ford 8n with rebuilt engine back to factory specs, plus a rebuilt dizzy with new bushings, clean fuel tank and clean carb, rebuilt starter with good brushes and bushings, fresh fuel, all new wires and a brand new hot battery and new plugs will work out just fine... sadly.. that's a pipe dream for most applications I see. Many people are looking for bandaid fixes.. big one is going ei instead or replacing dizzy bushings, as the EI HE sensor is more tolerant of a eccentric spin that would make for changing points gaps.. that and 12v seems to be a universal bandaid for a wornengine with low compression. 12v on the 6v starter spins it over faster yeilding higher dynamic compression and easier starting... cheaper to hang a 35$ junkyard alternator on than re-ring and re-sleave and engine and drop in bearings, and gaskets, oil, and have head and block checked, plus a valve job.

again.. this is the stuff we see and deal with daily onother ford specific forums... just didn't want the op to drop 150$ and have a non running tractor thinking EI was going to be a cure all / replacemnt for repair and periodic maintenance.

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Sounds like it's time to find the timing marks, set the distributor and
dig out a timing light.:thumbsup:

if it's a front mount.. that will be darn hard to do...

I can't recall if the poster did hav ethe front or not... too hard to go back on this pda and re-read a few pages of posts to verify...

 

[tlbuser]

You kinda do need to start from scratch and see what's going on. The front mount distributor is not adjustable, but the breaker plate is. Set the tractor #1 cylinder to TDC and see if the distributor is pointing directly to #1. Firing order is 1-2-4-3.
At this point, a 6v ei or 12v ei discussion is, stupid. Help the guy get his tractor fixed, it's not a pissing contest or a who's bigger game.

 

[tlbuser]

Sounds like it's time to find the timing marks, set the distributor and
dig out a timing light.:thumbsup:

Yes, something is amiss.

 

[Soundguy]

just what do you think we are doing?.. trying to help the guy.

did you read any of my last couple posts ?

dizzy goes on 1 way, and timing adjustment is negligible at best... if it ram when taken off, then timing is close enough to run now, unless he has forced it back on the cam out, and there is THAT much slop in the offset drive.. of which i have only seen 1 time...

soundguy

 

[tlbuser]

just what do you think we are doing?.. trying to help the guy.

did you read any of my last couple posts ?

dizzy goes on 1 way, and timing adjustment is negligible at best... if it ram when taken off, then timing is close enough to run now, unless he has forced it back on the cam out, and there is THAT much slop in the offset drive.. of which i have only seen 1 time...

soundguy

Yes, I did.

 

[bucktaker]

if the op removes a spark plug does he see a spark on each plug? if so check firing order and then timing.

 

[catfishonly]

just what do you think we are doing?.. trying to help the guy.

did you read any of my last couple posts ?

dizzy goes on 1 way, and timing adjustment is negligible at best... if it ram when taken off, then timing is close enough to run now, unless he has forced it back on the cam out, and there is THAT much slop in the offset drive.. of which i have only seen 1 time...

soundguy

soundguy. it is a front mount and yes it ran before i tore it down to repaint and rewire. i put it all back together and tried to start it it would not start so ichecked the points and again replaced every thing coil points crab cap and rotocap still no fire i took a old cap the other night and cut part of the side out to see what the problem was when i was cranking it the rotobutton would get spark all the way down but when the rotobutton would come around to #1 it would not fire on #1 it would fire inbetween #1 and #2 and when i tried to see if it would spark on #2 it would fire inbetween #2 and #4 it is not fireing where it should how would this get out of time by just sitting and the book i have there is no real easy way to get the points plate set back is there.

 

[catfishonly]

Sounds like it's time to find the timing marks, set the distributor and
dig out a timing light.:thumbsup:

no timing marks this is a front mount distributor

 

[whodat526]

soundguy. it is a front mount and yes it ran before i tore it down to repaint and rewire. i put it all back together and tried to start it it would not start so ichecked the points and again replaced every thing coil points crab cap and rotocap still no fire i took a old cap the other night and cut part of the side out to see what the problem was when i was cranking it the rotobutton would get spark all the way down but when the rotobutton would come around to #1 it would not fire on #1 it would fire inbetween #1 and #2 and when i tried to see if it would spark on #2 it would fire inbetween #2 and #4 it is not fireing where it should how would this get out of time by just sitting and the book i have there is no real easy way to get the points plate set back is there.

you have a little bit of timing adjustment on the side of the dist it is on the left side of the tractor when sitting on the tractor it is a plate and bolt you loose and slide either up or down depending on the way you wont to adjust it

 

[EE_Bota]

There are some good pictures on a front mount on this page, if case that helps forward the discussion

8N Ford Distributor - Points and Condenser Replacement.

I worked on my last front distributor 38 years ago ( I was 12,) and the tractor always ran when I finished working on it. Are you smarter than a 12 year old?

Easy now....only kidding. I saw a show "Are you smarter than a 5th Grader," and I'm not!

If it ran before, and
you have the points gap right,
and the centrifugal advance is not hung up,
and the point mounting plate is in the right position,
and the rotor button is proper,
and not twisted on the shaft for some bizarre reason,

then it is hard to see how your timing can be too terribly off, unless you are 180 degrees off. And if you *could* change it 180 degrees, if you are between posts now, you will still be then.

We aren't in a position to verify your diagnosis of fire being lost between the rotor and the posts due to bad timing of those components. We must rely on you to be correct about that.

Also, we are relying on you to know that the points are set correctly...to 0.015" (fifteen thousandths of an inch) when fully open (the part riding on the lobe is dead center of the lobe.)

I remember that we always had good luck with our front distributor with stock parts, if the coil was good. For a long time, I had to keep the points pristine due to a weak coil, but when I finally convinced Dad that the coil was suspect, the new coil made our 8N ignition fairly trouble free. We kept it under shelter.

We're pulling for you.

 

[J_J]

Here is some tractor data for you.

Antique Tractor Resources - Tune-Up Specifications: Ford

 

[Soundguy]

ee and some other bring up good issues to check.

#1, the timing adjustment is minscule on a front mount, and is designed for static timing anyway using a ruler and a 1/4" drill bit stem.. or similar... with distribuitor off tractor and on your bench..

as was stated.. no timin marks or sight hole, and no real way to hookup a timing lamp anyway without drilling holes in the dizzy.. or using a 'delete' kit / coil setup.. or being creative with some thin well insulated flat wire to make the points connection for the lamp.. and STILL there is no timing marks.. etc..

if the dizzy bushings are eccentric, you will never get .015 points gap on all 4 lobes

#2, if the rotor is crooked ont he shaft you will be artificially out of time.

#3, if the advance is damaged or hung, you can be out of time by up to the total amount of ****** or advance available

#4, if you are usinghte wrong points gap, you are effecting timing a tad..

#5, if the lobes on the dizzy are excessively worn you will have difficulty setting points gap. IMHO.. I've never seen one significanly worn, vs the rubbing block on the points.. etc..

if it came off and had been running.. advannce is the first thing I'd check.

didn't use any long non oem scres on the breaker plate did ya?