Ford and Powerstroke Engines

TwinCreek · Mar 5, 2007

As a 2005 F350 6.0 PSD owner with a pending lemon-law suit against Ford, I can provide a real experience with the problem. I purchased my $50,000 truck for one purpose, to tow a 24ft 8,000lb trailer cross country 10 times a year. In my first year of ownership, the F350 left me stranded 3 times and nearly killed my fellow interstate travelers each time. Ford says the truck doesn't have a problem, even though it was towed to a Ford dealer each time. Last Ford I ever buy.

Joe1 · Mar 6, 2007

In their medium duty truck line, IH lists the VT365 engine with 230 HP and 620 ft lbs of torque. Is that the same 6.0 they sell to Ford or is it designed differently and built for heavier useage? The Ford pick-up line is cranking out a lot more hp and around the same or less torque.

I wonder if some of the reported problems are from too much stress on the engine with too much turbo boost causing the increased hp and increased problems.

k6dyc · Mar 6, 2007

BrianW said:
Ford keeps this up and no one will want to partner with them!

Combined with the general boycott of Ford by consumers because of Ford's ********** agenda

, this issue could end up costing them major market share. I own two Powerstrokes, a F350 for towing my horse trailer and a F250 Excursion for general use. Even though I've been a Ford man for decades, I'll never buy another and I've told them so.

Robert_in_NY · Mar 6, 2007

Are you refusing to buy another Ford because of this ad campaign overseas or because you are having problems with your Ford products?

k6dyc · Mar 6, 2007

Robert_in_NY said:
Are you refusing to buy another Ford because of this ad campaign overseas or because you are having problems with your Ford products?

It's a little bit of both. While I understand the need to market to a diverse group of potential customers, I am not overly happy with their active promotion of the ********** lifestyle by contributing non-advertising $$ to groups that promote the gay lifestyle into the mainstream. I have also had several issues with their products, but to be honest, that isn't the driving force behind my decision. I spent a significant amount of time in the SF gay community and I'm certainly not a homophobe. My objection to Ford's position is rooted in their departure from a focus on quality vehicles and an corporate emphasis on social reform, as seen through thier eyes.

Lynkage · Mar 6, 2007

Joe1 said:
In their medium duty truck line, IH lists the VT365 engine with 230 HP and 620 ft lbs of torque. Is that the same 6.0 they sell to Ford or is it designed differently and built for heavier useage? The Ford pick-up line is cranking out a lot more hp and around the same or less torque.

I wonder if some of the reported problems are from too much stress on the engine with too much turbo boost causing the increased hp and increased problems.

Yes it is the same motor. As far as longevity It could be. Head gaskets are an issue as well as the hi pressure fuel injection system.
As far as I know they have fixed most 05-06 models but some seem to still have issues.

Joe1 · Mar 6, 2007

I have to aree with k6dyc.

IMO, Ford has lost sight of it's primary business purpose of building quality American vehicles the public actually wants to buy. I was in the market for a new vehicle in November and looked at Ford, Mercury and Lincoln and a lot of other makes. Many Ford, Mercury and Lincoln models are built in Mexico. So much for American cars. The sales manager at a Lincoln/Mercury dealership told me not to buy a new Lincoln Town Car or Mercury Grand Marquis because I could buy a one or two year lease return with 20,000 miles for about 50 - 60% of the cost of a new one. Add on their political support for groups I won't support makes it a no brainer decision. I wouldn't take my car to a repair facility owned, run and staffed by Mexicans in Mexico that do not speak English, so why would I buy one from the same place.

Built in Mexico for many models and crappy resale is a good reason not to buy. I ended up with a Nissan built in Tennessee. Time will tell if it's as good as my last one.

Bird · Mar 6, 2007

Many Ford, Mercury and Lincoln models are built in Mexico

Like most manufacturers today, different models are made in different places around the world. Yes, some of the Fords come from Mexico, I have a Ford minivan from Canada and a Ford Ranger made in the USA.

Diesel-ME · Mar 6, 2007

Sure glad that I only have 84k miles on my '02 7.3l PSD..... got another 216 thousand to go I hope

The 6.9's and 7.3's have an awsome track record for reliability. A bit less torque, but plenty of pulling power indeed.

~paul

burnetma · Mar 7, 2007

Paul,

You sure you do not want to sell your truck to me? That is EXACTLY what I am looking for in my next truck! Just saying NO to 6.0 and 6.4. The torque and HP can easily be fixed.

My 1997 has nearly 240k. The engine is fine but the rust is getting to it in spots.

Diesel-ME · Mar 7, 2007

Mark,

Lemme think about that for a sec...um, NO

Diamondpilot · Mar 11, 2007

I for one am excited about the new 6.4 PowerStroke. I have a 2006 F-350 4x4 PS 6.0 and get great economy. I had a 2004 F-250 4x4 but it was not enough truck for my needs. I put Quadzilla 120 HP chips on both along with 4" exhaust and a intake system. On my truck I get 23mpg at 2000 rpm and 76 mph on the highway. 17mpg around town and I get 17 mpg towing my boat which I do 5,000 miles a year and it weighs 15,600# and even better towing my 7,000# tractor and trailer combo. The only problem I have had was I broke the hitch on the F-250 the first time I towed the boat. Of course it was only rated for 12,000#. I just ordered the 2.5" receiver and have towed a 70' house trailer that weighed 25,000# 30 miles. This was not quite legal but I live in the sticks and we did it all on country roads.

I owed a Dodge for 2 years and was not impressed. It was in the shop 8 times for the same radiator cooling fan problem, once for a broken steering box, once for a a/c compressor, and lots of little problems. The chassis and suspension seemed soft compared to the Fords. The resale in my area was weak also so I took a hit on it but I had to have something reliable.

I looked at a Duramax but cant bring myself to buy another GM. I have a Vette and its no stranger to a wrench and owned a Blazer that was a constant problem. The Duramax does get good millage and pulls well but my neighbor has one and he had it weighed. His truck is the same setup as my F-350 extended cab and weighed 780# less. Something has to give. My feeling on the GM is I have never seen one with both running lights working. If they cant get that right that tells me a lot.

The only way I would ever stray away from the Fords is if Nissian or Toyota make a 1 Ton with a Diesiel.

Chris

Lynkage · Mar 11, 2007

We have a Dodge diesel and 2 Gasser's at our office. the 3/4 ton diesel is a 2004 and has had 3 transmissions, a rear end and the doors fall down when you open it. It also only has 65k. This to me is unacceptable. Our hemi's one has spun a main bearing and has 80k is a 2002. Our 05 gasser is a quad cab (what a joke 4 doors with no room in the back) is a 1/2 ton and hardly gets 10 MPG no matter what. Its doors are also falling down.

They all have their problems and I really do not think that this shows any problems that the others are not going through as well. The news will tell you what they want you to hear. I like my 06 psd very much and I still think they will make a great truck no matter what.

Toyota's are not any better as there recall rate is gotten higher and higher and they will face the same problems as the rest of them.
JMHO

Atlas · Mar 12, 2007

In 2005 Toyota recalled more cars than they sold that year.

CharlieTR · Mar 12, 2007

Kendall69 said:
From another site:

Ford may have a contract with them they are great at not sending all the money for a given shipment. This requires them to chase Ford down for the rest of the money. A super big hassle.

My guess is that Ford estimated an number of 6.4L sales and IH negotiated for that amount of engines. With the economy slowing and the cost of fuel rising/high I bet the sales are lower than Ford had hoped for. Their only recourse is to invent an issue. By Ford paying less than the agreed amount to IH they force IH's hand to stop production. This means that Ford gets what they really want, fewer 6.4L engines, without having to meet their projected monthly commitments. Ford now can sell less trucks which is where the market is at without having to eat the extra production that they estimated and contracted they would need.

Ford is good at shenanigans.

Sadly this hangs IH out to dry as they also have commitments and their suppliers will be the ones to carry the largest losses due to lower volume sales. It usually is the little guys that are hit the hardest. They need to eat the most in less profits.

Dude,
What is the quote from the other site and what is your comments?
Who exactly is GUESSING about whose fault it is and making inflamatory statements BASED ON GUESS.
IH's engines are failing on a large scale and they are not living up to the warrenty agreement. Did you actually read the article or just guess again!

Builder · Mar 18, 2007

Joe1 said:
I have to aree with k6dyc.

IMO, Ford has lost sight of it's primary business purpose of building quality American vehicles the public actually wants to buy. I was in the market for a new vehicle in November and looked at Ford, Mercury and Lincoln and a lot of other makes. Many Ford, Mercury and Lincoln models are built in Mexico. So much for American cars. The sales manager at a Lincoln/Mercury dealership told me not to buy a new Lincoln Town Car or Mercury Grand Marquis because I could buy a one or two year lease return with 20,000 miles for about 50 - 60% of the cost of a new one. Add on their political support for groups I won't support makes it a no brainer decision. I wouldn't take my car to a repair facility owned, run and staffed by Mexicans in Mexico that do not speak English, so why would I buy one from the same place.

Built in Mexico for many models and crappy resale is a good reason not to buy. I ended up with a Nissan built in Tennessee. Time will tell if it's as good as my last one.

Would it interest you to know that Ford has the highest quantity of American made vehicles and parts of any auto maker in the world, including GM?
http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/docs/lfi-domestic-content.pdf

Builder · Mar 18, 2007

Lynkage said:
Yes this is kind of odd.
Ford has bought IH engines for many many years not just for pickups.
There mid sized line has always had the option of IH clear back to the 70's

Ford has dropped the Powerstroke line for the 650/750 for the new model year lineup. They will now offer the 6.7L Cummins and CAT diesels only. No more Powerstroke.

Builder · Mar 18, 2007

Donnyj said:
It sure isn't Fords injectors, turbos, Egr coolers, headgaskets, oil leaks. That is all courtesy of IH.

Not entirely true. The injectors were made by Sturman industries, now they're made by Siemens. The turbos are either Garrett or Holsett. My guess is the EGR coolers and headgaskets are made by subcontractors as well.

Builder · Mar 18, 2007

Diamondpilot said:
I looked at a Duramax but cant bring myself to buy another GM. I have a Vette and its no stranger to a wrench and owned a Blazer that was a constant problem. The Duramax does get good millage and pulls well but my neighbor has one and he had it weighed. His truck is the same setup as my F-350 extended cab and weighed 780# less. Something has to give. My feeling on the GM is I have never seen one with both running lights working. If they cant get that right that tells me a lot.

The only way I would ever stray away from the Fords is if Nissian or Toyota make a 1 Ton with a Diesiel.

Chris

The GMC truck is lighter in part because the Duramax is lighter because it has aluminum heads and the truck has an aluminum front differential. The GM front suspension doesn't have 2 leaf spring packs or a solid front axle. That's where most of the weight savings comes from. Ford definately gives you a stronger front end, but with it comes a stiffer ride. I have both, so I can speak from direct side by side user comparisons. I have a 7.3L that's worked pretty nicely for more power and the new stock GMC will spank it. The GM DMAX/Allison drivetrain is superior to ford's drivetrain, no doubt about it. GM has a better warranty to back it up to help prove the point. There's no way a Ford in-house made Torqshift transmission is superior to an Allison transmission. Tear both down sometime and see the input out shafts & tailshafts and you'll see why, too. The Allison is a 6 speed, the Ford is a 5 speed. the allison has a manual shift feature that's really neat for trailer pulling as well as an awesome "tow/haul" mode.

The Ford has a stronger chassis & front suspension with more articulation for off roading. The downside is the ride is rougher and the handling not as nice over the road, where our trucks are driven most of the time. The Ford cab is bigger inside and the view is more commanding than my GMC.

I just bought my GMC3500 4x4 and I can say that I made the right choice over Ford. Ford has too many drivetrain/engine issues right now. The Ford 6L diesel will go down as one of the era's most troubled diesels. The new 6.4L that replaces it is totally unproven. GM has a proven solid drivetrain.

When it was time to decide, I decided the drivetrain was more important than the front suspension. With the better GM warranty, I went GMC. next time it might be Ford. Buy what suits you best.

No regrets.