Ford closing Cleveland engine plant

[Builder]

Then the Chinese will ship the steel back to us, almost tariff free and sell it to domestic steel suppliers who in turn sell it to end users, our manufacturing plants.

After they mix in the DU contaminated scrap from Iraq and Afghanistan, then we collect a 40% tariff on the "imported steel"

Maybe after the wonderful Chinese "craftsmen" are done poisoning our pets, providing our children with substandard juice drinks, or stealing another American patent, they can start watering down all the steel they send us.
That way we can have cracked engine blocks and truck frames.

Can melamine be added to Chinese steel to stretch it a little further?

Someday in the future, folks are gonna realize it wasn't built so bad when it was "Made in USA" afterall.

They'll realize that management & the government most of all, sold this country's industries out to the aisia countries, who will cut corners and cheat just as bad or worse than our country ever did.

 

[Volfandt]

Can you tell me what "skilled craftsmen" are required to work assembling cars in all the Toyota & Nissan plants? Please, I need to know what "skilled craftsmen" are required to put a seat in a Camry or rattle the lug nuts onto a Titan.

Lets see, I can go about this in many ways. Lets start off by indicating that the mere act of building an automobile takes skilled craftsmen, no matter the particular job. I know this as I've seen a car built from the ground up..... Then lets include those that operate and program the robotics, amoung other high tech machinery, then lets talk about about those that are tasked to repair these machines, all of which of employed by the automotive manufacturer, no matter it's namesake. You get that? Hello is there anybody there?

I wonder why can't the Japanese or the Chinese can't build a better backhoe than us lazy, overadvertising, "razzle-dazzle", "outdated", over-benefitted, "inept", "brainwashed-unionized", "greedy" American union & management that Wolfandt and others in this thread spoke of? ???

1st off I didn't say all and 2nd'ly I'm only talking about the auto industry. 3rd'ly I've just been talking about only ONE of our foreign competitors, the Japanese.
If you don't think that past management of our manufacturing industry weren't inept and the subsequent introduction of the greedy unions that gave us $30.00 an hr broom sweepers and light bulb changers hasn't harmed our manufacturing industry then theres not much more I can say to you. Enjoy your false sense of security whilst more and more high paying jobs leave our country....
Get your head out of the sand man!
That kind of thinking has made Toyota one of the largest manufacturers in the world, soon to bypass Ford!
When you pass or perhaps even work on contstruction sites what brand(s) do you see? Around my way the American ticket machines run about 50% and that ain't good considering it was 100% 30 yrs ago!
America still produces the best mid size trucks and seems to be getting competitive in the compact & sub-compact auto lines but considering as how they had a virtual lock on all auto's sold in America 40 yrs ago it's way to easy to see that American managment & the unions blew it BIG TIME!
Course the fact that 2 out of every 3 compact cars on our highways aren't made by the Big 3 probably just slides on past you as you don't seem to want to pull your head out of the sand.
Cut and past all you want, the facts our on our highways and in our construction sites, the American consumer has spoken.......

In closing, being that I'm an American craftsman that went through a company selloff and having to subsequently relearn a new job at 50 yrs of age, there ain't no doubt in my military veteran mind that we can compete with and produce the best products in the world but, we've handicapped ourselves to the point of ruin by past ineptitude and greed. Thank goodness we're trying to re-learn from those that took the best that we had to offer a 1/2 century ago and are now very successful with it.

 

[Builder]

Lets see, I can go about this in many ways. Lets start off by indicating that the mere act of building an automobile takes skilled craftsmen, no matter the particular job. I know this as I've seen a car built from the ground up..... Then lets include those that operate and program the robotics, amoung other high tech machinery, then lets talk about about those that are tasked to repair these machines, all of which of employed by the automotive manufacturer, no matter it's namesake. You get that? Hello is there anybody there?

1st off I didn't say all and 2nd'ly I'm only talking about the auto industry. 3rd'ly I've just been talking about only ONE of our foreign competitors, the Japanese.
If you don't think that past management of our manufacturing industry weren't inept and the subsequent introduction of the greedy unions that gave us $30.00 an hr broom sweepers and light bulb changers hasn't harmed our manufacturing industry then theres not much more I can say to you. Enjoy your false sense of security whilst more and more high paying jobs leave our country....
Get your head out of the sand man!
That kind of thinking has made Toyota one of the largest manufacturers in the world, soon to bypass Ford!
When you pass or perhaps even work on contstruction sites what brand(s) do you see? Around my way the American ticket machines run about 50% and that ain't good considering it was 100% 30 yrs ago!
America still produces the best mid size trucks and seems to be getting competitive in the compact & sub-compact auto lines but considering as how they had a virtual lock on all auto's sold in America 40 yrs ago it's way to easy to see that American managment & the unions blew it BIG TIME!
Course the fact that 2 out of every 3 compact cars on our highways aren't made by the Big 3 probably just slides on past you as you don't seem to want to pull your head out of the sand.
Cut and past all you want, the facts our on our highways and in our construction sites, the American consumer has spoken.......

In closing, being that I'm an American craftsman that went through a company selloff and having to subsequently relearn a new job at 50 yrs of age, there ain't no doubt in my military veteran mind that we can compete with and produce the best products in the world but, we've handicapped ourselves to the point of ruin by past ineptitude and greed. Thank goodness we're trying to re-learn from those that took the best that we had to offer a 1/2 century ago and are now very successful with it.

Why are you being so rude & hostile with the "You get that?" "Hello anybody in there?" over & over again garbage? Maybe if you'd show an ounce of respect for other people's opinions and treat them as intelligent human beings expressing their opinions, you might make a better impression. Afterall, you are expressing your opinions, too. Correct?

The reason I am able to be on a computer in the middle of the day is because I worked my tail off for 20 years to build my own business that now runs itself. I'm not ashamed to call myself "American" and I don't cry in my cheerios every morning with "American guilt".

I'm not saying that American made means superior, or that American upper management and the US gov't hasn't sold the American worker down the river.....they have!

I'm just saying that there's a media hype out there that keeps churning out the same "foreign is superior" kool aide and a lot of people are drinking it.

Foreign ain't always better. I see it everyday in construction, the materials we use, the labor and the equipment.

 

[Volfandt]

Why are you being so rude & hostile with the "You get that?" "Hello anybody in there?" over & over again garbage?

Whats the saying? If you don't want none don't give none?
I percieved that you took our debate to a more personal level and unfortunately I responded likewise. Perhaps your remarks weren't meant to be taken personal and if so then I'll digress from the personal responses. As far as I'm concerned, no harm no foul.

It appears that we have vastly differing & strong opinons on this topic and I doubt either one of us will be able to sway the others opinion, so I'll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that

I get to get on the internet during the day as part of the services the company I work for offers is T1/T3 voice & internet service. You've got to test it out before you cut it over don't you know.

See you around and good luck with your upcoming BH purchase.

 

[5030]

Boy, I'm really proud of myself, I got you guys thinking. Not all positive, but thinking. Don't be hostile with each other though. In todays jilted economy and social and economic unrest we all need to stick together. All hostility does is cause regression.

Read my paragraph about what the Fords workers should do with the foundry. I know they won't. That's the mentality of the unionized factory worker. They are sitting on a gold mine and don't have the sense to use a shovel.

I'm a little disappointed though. I really expected a few private messages concerning shipments of either Japanese badged or American badged/built offshore tractors being prepared for shipment to my farm. Remember, those little tractors, CUTS or SUB CUTS or whatever they are called, you know, the wannabe farmer tractors, send them to the scrap yard and have 'em shred. They are about as useful as a frog with no legs.

 

[Harold_J]

...That tells me our engineering must be pretty decent....same with Japan.

...

It's not the quality of our engineering, it's the quantity. This has been going on for a long time, not just with Ford's recent troubles. The Ford Taurus is a perfect example; 10-12 years ago or more it was a great car and a leader in it's class. But what happened was Toyota and Honda would do a complete retooling on the Camry's and Accords every 2-3 years while Ford would coast along and wait 6-7 years to redesign. The car was still OK but had fallen way behind and now the US auto industry is where it is.

 

[Builder]

It's not the quality of our engineering, it's the quantity. This has been going on for a long time, not just with Ford's recent troubles. The Ford Taurus is a perfect example; 10-12 years ago or more it was a great car and a leader in it's class. But what happened was Toyota and Honda would do a complete retooling on the Camry's and Accords every 2-3 years while Ford would coast along and wait 6-7 years to redesign. The car was still OK but had fallen way behind and now the US auto industry is where it is.

Exactly my point, my friend.

American engineering is superior to others. Your Taurus example is perfect. We can engineer a superior product that will be serviceable for many more years. The others must constantly copy what we build and redesign it every 3 years just to keep up or be better.

Compare the inventions & patents that come from the US compared to Japan or China. No comparison, we destroy them in the world of ideas, inventions and engineering.

They destroy us at copying our ideas and producing them cheaper & better.

Look up the billions of dollars in lawsuits American companies have filed against the Chinese for patent infringement. Last I checked the meter was in the many billions of dollars.

 

[AMP762]

Ah,but when the ballon goes up who will make our guns and ammo?

 

[KICK]

seems like an age old argument

Patriotic American Product Owners versus Anti American Product bashers

knowing it is impossible to make any headway in an argument like this, I will do what I always have done and try to support American Brands by purchasing them when available.

 

[Builder]

seems like an age old argument

Patriotic American Product Owners versus Anti American Product bashers

knowing it is impossible to make any headway in an argument like this, I will do what I always have done and try to support American Brands by purchasing them when available.

Anyone ever tell you, "KICK, you have a way with words".

Thanks.