Ford finally came to their senses

[rswyan]

Why would you use toilet paper filters....even today?

They are relatively cheap (less than $1 apiece) and they filter extremely well.

Seems like the suction to pull thorough them would be a lot more than traditional filter media, esp with the tube in the center

It's a pressure filter, not suction.

Keep in mind that this is a bypass oil filter - not a full-flow filter like the stock OEM filter.

It filters only a small amount of the oil flow at any given time, but it filters it to a very high degree ... on a continuous basis.

There is a restriction orifice on the inlet to the filter. IIRC, the hole is only 1/16" or 1/32" in diameter.

... and they make filters today for auxiliary oil filters that have to do a better job of filtration than a roll of TP?

A bypass filter that uses a roll of TP as the filter media is capable of filtering to the sub-micron level.

The proof is in the numbers:

The "Make Up Oil" numbers (in the first row) in the above report are not cumulative.

As of 01/22/09, there were a total of 24,976 miles on the sump since the last full oil change.

I ran it another 26,398 miles after that (186,657 miles on the vehicle or "unit") ... before I actually drained the sump and did a full oil change.

So ... a total of 51,374 miles between full oil changes.

With the way it was going, I probably could have ran it for another 50K before doing a full change.

(Edit: Corrected numbers after verifying with maintenance log)

 

[Arc weld]

The Motorguard filter is not a roll of toilet paper. It is a similar size but not the same. The inner core of the Motorguard filter is also plastic so it doesn't turn to mush when wet.

 

[rswyan]

The Motorguard filter is not a roll of toilet paper.

That's true ... but then I never said that it was.

It is a similar size but not the same.

Yup ... but the real question is:

How is it different and how is it similar?

One of the ways it is similar is that they both use wood cellulose (aka paper) as the filter media.

The inner core of the Motorguard filter is also plastic so it doesn't turn to mush when wet.

No problems with rolls of a TP "turning to mush" when they're immersed in oil.

 

[Arc weld]

"I have two MotorGuard filters that were modified for use with fluid (engine oil, transmission/hydraulic fluid) by an old boy down in Texas by the name of Ralph Woods. They use a roll of toilet paper as the filter medium:"

This previous comment of yours seems to contradict your statement in the post above. Why wouldn't the inner cardboard core of a roll of toilet paper not turn to mush when immersed in hot oil? Have you ever actually used a roll of toilet paper in place of the actual Motorguard filter?

 

[rswyan]

"I have two MotorGuard filters that were modified for use with fluid (engine oil, transmission/hydraulic fluid) by an old boy down in Texas by the name of Ralph Woods. They use a roll of toilet paper as the filter medium:"

This previous comment of yours seems to contradict your statement in the post above.

In what way ?

Why wouldn't the inner cardboard core of a roll of toilet paper not turn to mush when immersed in hot oil?

Why wouldn't the internal paper media in a spin-on oil filter turn into mush when immersed in hot oil ... it's made of the same stuff (wood cellulose) ?

That wood cellulose can be pretty tough stuff.

No "mush" here:

You seem to be assuming that it would turn to "mush" (whatever that is) ... based on what exactly ... ?

Decades of use of wood cellulose (aka paper) as internal filtering media in fluid filters by filter manufacturers would seem to contradict that assumption.

Have you ever actually used a roll of toilet paper in place of the actual Motorguard filter?

Maybe we have a confusion of terms here - maybe I wasn't clear in my previous comments:

When I said "Motorguard filter that were modified for use with fluid", I'm referring to the filter housings - not the filter elements. The modifications that were done allow them to accept a roll of TP.

To answer your question though:

Yes, I have used rolls of toilet paper (kinda partial to Scott 1000) in place of the actual Motorguard filter elements ... in two different filter housings for filtering engine oil and transmission fluid ... well in excess of 100,000 miles of overall usage.

In filtering diesel engine oil, the elements get changed out at around 5K miles ... basically because they are so good at filtering the filter flow rate slows down considerably.

Filters used on the transmission can go much longer, as the fluid doesn't have all the soot that diesel engine oil has.

 

[Arc weld]

You clearly stated they use a roll of toilet paper as the filter medium and then you state you never said it was a roll of toilet paper. I think as long as I can afford to drive, I can afford to change the oil and filter a little more often than every 51,000 miles.

 

[rswyan]

You clearly stated they use a roll of toilet paper as the filter medium and then you state you never said it was a roll of toilet paper.

Apparently you were confused by my explanation. My bad.

The stock Motorguard filters do not use rolls of TP as the filter media ... although they are quite similar to rolls of TP.

My filters were modified (different center tube and a few other things) to use rolls of toilet paper.

I think as long as I can afford to drive, I can afford to change the oil and filter a little more often than every 51,000 miles.

At the point where one is putting 100K miles (or more) on a vehicle in a year it adds up to real money ... especially running Mobil 1 Synthetic.

Even if one is only changing it every 15K miles.

 

[Arc weld]

Are you joy riding 100k miles a year or doing it for work? I knew a guy that drove a semi on a steady trip week in and week out and changed his oil every month. I also saw the insides of a pick up engine where a guy used synthetic oil with the stock filter for 25,000kms. It looked like shredded rubber in the valve cover.

 

[rswyan]

Are you joy riding 100k miles a year or doing it for work?

Was doing it for work ... time-critical, exclusive-use expedited (emergency) delivery service.

I knew a guy that drove a semi on a steady trip week in and week out and changed his oil every month.

And I know multiple individuals running Class 7 and Class 8 rigs running bypass filtration systems that don't change their oil for 50K to 100K miles ... or more ...

Maybe you should give that fellow a heads up on what a bypass oil filtration system could do for his bottom line:

"How long can an oil fill be run using by-pass filtration? We've heard claims of large (Class 8) diesels going 1,000,000 miles on the same fill of oil with no harm done to the engines. We have analyzed oils which have been in service 240,000 miles and found nothing unusual in the analysis, other than higher than average iron and lead (from steel parts and bearings), and these wear accumulations were not intolerably high."

By-Pass Oil Filtration - Blackstone Labs

Understanding Engine Oil Bypass Filtration - Machinery Lubrication

I also saw the insides of a pick up engine where a guy used synthetic oil with the stock filter for 25,000kms. It looked like shredded rubber in the valve cover.

The Mercedes diesel in my van has an OEM factory sensor (aka the ASSYST system) which measures the di-electric (?) component of the oil to tell when the oil needs changed. The counter starts out at 10K miles and counts down in 100 mile increments (ie 9900, 9800, etc.) to show how much life is left on the oil.

The counter does not decrease by the amount of miles driven, but rather the actual condition of the oil, showing the estimated life left in the oil in remaining miles.

Typically, without the bypass filtration system, the life on the sump would go 12K to 15K miles before the counter read zero, indicating it was time to change the oil.

Had the valve cover off @ around 375K miles ... the inside was pretty clean. Nothing whatsoever that looked like "shredded rubber".

Also had the intake off ... it was pretty gunked up ... due to the fact that the engine has an EGR valve.

But like the machinist who degreased and cleaned the intake out said:

If someone stuck a hose up your butt and then stuck it in your mouth, you'd be gunked up too !"

:laughing:

 

[TomSeller]

What is everyone's impression of the 2.7 CGI block construction vs the 3.5's more traditional construction? And what would anyone guess the 3.5 would put out once/if redesigned with CGI?