Ford Hydraulic Fluid

[Don in LA]

I own a 1967 Ford 3000 diesel tractor. I guess the guy that owned it before didn't change the hydraulic fluid. It runs (engine,transmission, hydraulics) fine. I checked the hydraulic fluid levels in the transmission and rear axle (which supplies fluid for the hydraulics). The rear axle fluid is black. The transmission had too much fluid and I drained about a pint into a clear plastic container. After a few minutes I noticed a seperation in the fluid. After 4 weeks I have a 1 1/2" top layer of dark brown fluid over a 3" layer of grayish/green fluid. I am going to change the fluid. I just wanted to get some ideas as to any problems that I may be looking at as evidenced by the fluid color and seperation.

Thanks,

Don

 

[Soundguy]

Since petro chem's don't usually seperate out like that.. I'd say you got water in there.

I'd add a bottle of seafoam transtune to the sumps, and then agitate, and then drain... the seafoam will grab water in soloution ( not suspension ), and hopefully you will get most of it out.

( on the cheap.. a couple bottles of 91% isopropyl would probably work... as it's a polar solvent and water is polar.. )..

In any case.. repalce with clean UTF fluid meeting the M2C134D spec. Walmart supertech is the cheapest I've found.. TSC carries traveler brand.. and the dealer has it's own brand.

I'd repalce any filters too.. as they are likely 'wet'.

soundguy

 

[jinman]

I can't improve on Soundguy's perfect advice, but I'd sure love to see a photo of the fluid. We could add it to the TBN "Hall of Shame." It sounds to me like you're starting out well with your new acquisition.

 

[Don in LA]

Soundguy and Jinman,

Thanks for the info. I was hoping that you wouldn't say that I may have water in my hydraulic fluid. If that is the case, I'm surprised that the Ford has performed as well as it has. Actually, I've had the tractor for a few years (shame on me for not doing this maintenance sooner). I got it to maintain 600' of gravel driveway and about 1000' of walking trails. And, just because I always wanted a tractor! More recently, since I moved, the tractor has been used to maintain a one mile subdivision access road. The big question is, do you guys think that I need to look elsewhere for problems that may have led to water getting into the system? Again, it was the manual transmission which has the fluid that seperated. I'll see if I can figure out how to post a picture of the stuff. I can kinda operate a computer and I can take pictures but getting the pictures on the computer is another matter. I'll see if I can get my wife to help me with that.

Thanks again,

Don

 

[Soundguy]

Water gets in a variety of ways... loose fill caps, shifters with bad shields / boots... 3pt control springs ( ford n was bad about this ).. condensation from sumps warming and cooling.. etc.

If it's really that dirty / wet.. For the health of the system.. and since you've gotten away for so long with no oil change costs... I'd add the seafoam.. agitate for 15 minutes.. then drain.. refill with walmart utf.. add more seafoam, and then run a week.. then drain again and do final fill. Make sure you change the filters to. walmart utc runs about 30$ per 5g now.. and TSC is about 40$ per 5g, with dealer fluid being inthe 50-60$ range depending on where you are at.

those old machines will run aloooong time with a little care an maintenance. t hat fact that yours has been running so long on bad fluid is a testiment to their design.

soundguy

 

[lawcub2001]

i just changed out all the fluids and ended up buying UTF at JD store it was the cheapest around at $60 or so for 5 gals. didnt find any at walmart.
by the way i am also in South LA. and as long as you are changing the fluid DEFINITELY clean the filter screen. that thing is SCARY!!!!

 

[Soundguy]

Dang.. too bad no cheap oil at wm / TSC.. 60$ for 5g is almost robery...

soundguy

 

[Don in LA]

Thanks for your replies. I picked up some Super Trac hyd fluid at the local NAPA for $35 for 5 gallons. I was looking in my Ford manual and it said that the hyd filters should be changed by a Ford technician. Any experience with changing the filters? And, is the referenced filter the same as the "screen".

Thanks again,

Don

 

[Soundguy]

No ford tractor technicians left since ford stopped making tractor years ago.. that means you get the duty!..

as to what filter / screens.. etc.. depends on the model!

soundguy

 

[redneckford]

No ford tractor technicians left since ford stopped making tractor years ago.. that means you get the duty!..

as to what filter / screens.. etc.. depends on the model!

soundguy

Don

The Ford 1967 3000 has two filters in the hydraulic system ---a metal washable suction filter (C5NNN994M) located under the ring gear in the rear end and a little paper (disposable) (C5NNN832B) return filter located on the right hand side of the tractor on the end of a 1/2" S tube---this filter may look fine on the outside as it is a return filter so it filters from the inside out(Dirty on the inside)---The metal washable suction filter runs on a metal line from the right hand side right at the rear of the transmission connection(under the PTO Shaft) to the left side of the rear end under the ring gear and axle---it is bolted to one of the bolts holding the pinion. IF it is an 6 or 8 speed you can remove this filter by removing the PTO shaft,the left hand cover on the rear housing where the park brake may be mounted and the Pto shift lever---it is easier to remove the lift top also --but can be done without this removal---IF IT IS A SINGLE SHIFT 4 SPEED TRANSMISSION SETUP you will have to split the tractor between the rear end and transmission to change or wash this filter(Due to the PTO shifter setup) -----you can wash the rear housing with a little diesel sometimes and clean it enough to do but looking from the top it will look clean(can't see it very good because of the location under the ring gear) but usually the bottom still does not come clean ----FORD TECH for 20+ years! In my area Super Trac is bringing $25 at the Local truck parts houses and truck stops. However we use ---- in the 2000 and 3000's that WE repair.

 

[jinman]

Thanks for your replies. I picked up some Super Trac hyd fluid at the local NAPA for $35 for 5 gallons. I was looking in my Ford manual and it said that the hyd filters should be changed by a Ford technician. Any experience with changing the filters? And, is the referenced filter the same as the "screen".

Thanks again,

Don

Yesterday, when we were "herding cats" to the vet for shots and worming, I picked up a local shopper classified paper and noticed our TSC has Traveller Premium Hydraulic Fluid on sale for $36/5 gal. I believe their normal price is over 40 per pail, so that's a pretty good deal.

 

[Don in LA]

Redneck,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and with all the detail. Luckily, I have an 8 speed manual transmission. That's a good price on the Supertrac. I may be able to get to the tractor tomorrow. Today I'm helping my son (his day off) on another project: We are putting a towable backhoe on a barge to use for cleaning out his boat slip. I think it'll work out OK. We're working on putting stabilizer feet (spuds) on it and getting the hoe on the barge today. If you're up to it I may be picking your brain some more.

Later,

Don

 

[Soundguy]

Yesterday, when we were "herding cats" to the vet for shots and worming, I picked up a local shopper classified paper and noticed our TSC has Traveller Premium Hydraulic Fluid on sale for $36/5 gal. I believe their normal price is over 40 per pail, so that's a pretty good deal.

same here.. that's a decent deal too..

soundguy

 

[redneckford]

Redneck,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, and with all the detail. Luckily, I have an 8 speed manual transmission. That's a good price on the Supertrac. I may be able to get to the tractor tomorrow. Today I'm helping my son (his day off) on another project: We are putting a towable backhoe on a barge to use for cleaning out his boat slip. I think it'll work out OK. We're working on putting stabilizer feet (spuds) on it and getting the hoe on the barge today. If you're up to it I may be picking your brain some more.

Later,

Don

Don----What I am more concerned about is the fact that you said the oil was Black----if the seal leaks bye in the piston type hyd pump on the left side of the rear of the engine it is possible to pull(pump) all the engine oil out of the engine in short order and cause an engine failure----have had that problem several times----mostly caused by a stopped up suction filter in the rear end----the front gear and 2 needle bearings in the piston hyd pump are oiled from the engine oil---if it sets up a vacuum it may pull all the oil out of the engine rather quickly ---be sure the black oil was not engine oil if it is be sure and keep an eye on the engine oil level-----by cleaning the filter it stops this vacuum from developing and the problem fixes itself----RED

 

[Don in LA]

Red-Thanks again. I will check the engine oil. I've been checking it periodically but I will check it first thing tomorrow. I'll see if I can find the locations of the filters also. I have an operator's manual but I'm gonna have to see if I can find my repair manual (I think I lent it to my son) so I can find the areas/parts you are telling me about. I'm an OK parts changer, but not a mechanic.

Later,

Don

 

[mygoatboy]

I need to change the filters on my 3000 as well, the original owner never changed them but the fluid is clean. I have the Select-O-Speed so how do I get at that filter screen?

 

[redneckford]

I need to change the filters on my 3000 as well, the original owner never changed them but the fluid is clean. I have the Select-O-Speed so how do I get at that filter screen?

mygoatboy----a 10 sp trans (selectospeed) has the hyd filters in the same place ---see 05C01 Flow control in Ford Parts book----however you also have several filters on the left side of your trans----one large paper filter #25 (309735) and an inlet screen filter #22 (312283) see 07F01 in the Ford parts book

 

[Old Virginia Joe]

Soundguy---My '63 Ford 4000 was found to be slam full of fluid in the hydraulic section (midway between the rear end and the engine section, right?), so I dropped the plug and let some out such that the fluid level is now at the full mark on the dipstick under the seat. I have not used this tractor but a bit since I got it, but never noticed any issues with the lift except dipping just a smidgen, then slightly jerking upward, when I would have the lift all the way up, and running at low idle in neutral. You could watch it do that over and over. Would that have been caused by the overfilled hydraulic system? Did not see it do that anymore after draining the excess tonight, but not sure if that is cause and effect or just coincidence . . . . . . The fluid looked good and clean, by the way. Before now, I had never noticed the full markings on the dipstick, just assuming if it was full, that was good. Hope I didn't hurt anything.

 

[Soundguy]

the full mark on the dipstick on the hyds is merely a nominal sugestion. it's at about the 2g mark. the sump will actually hold a hair over 3g before things like the dipstick leak. that's so you can have a large SA cyl plumbed in via external hyds.

so.. i'd have to say your overfill was no issue.

and leakdown and circuit regen is normal. you likely see it more pronounced at idle when leak and pump flow are closer to same volume..

 

[Texasmark]

Don

The Ford 1967 3000 has two filters in the hydraulic system ---a metal washable suction filter (C5NNN994M) located under the ring gear in the rear end and a little paper (disposable) (C5NNN832B) return filter located on the right hand side of the tractor on the end of a 1/2" S tube---this filter may look fine on the outside as it is a return filter so it filters from the inside out(Dirty on the inside)---The metal washable suction filter runs on a metal line from the right hand side right at the rear of the transmission connection(under the PTO Shaft) to the left side of the rear end under the ring gear and axle---it is bolted to one of the bolts holding the pinion. IF it is an 6 or 8 speed you can remove this filter by removing the PTO shaft,the left hand cover on the rear housing where the park brake may be mounted and the Pto shift lever---it is easier to remove the lift top also --but can be done without this removal---IF IT IS A SINGLE SHIFT 4 SPEED TRANSMISSION SETUP you will have to split the tractor between the rear end and transmission to change or wash this filter(Due to the PTO shifter setup) -----you can wash the rear housing with a little diesel sometimes and clean it enough to do but looking from the top it will look clean(can't see it very good because of the location under the ring gear) but usually the bottom still does not come clean ----FORD TECH for 20+ years! In my area Super Trac is bringing $25 at the Local truck parts houses and truck stops. However we use ---- in the 2000 and 3000's that WE repair.

Yesterday I whipped out my 100 series 55-60 Shop Manual, my 1000 series 65-75 Repair Manual, and the 1000 series Owners Manuals looking for these filters and how to service information. Since you repair them and they are apparently year/model unique you said that the 67 3000 has the screen and paper element. How about the 65 3000 with the 6 speed and Live PTO?

You'd think that Ford would have made these things accessible since in the 1000 repair manual it shows pictures of both and says that the screen needed to be cleaned out frequently. I did see where the 5000 had a spin on filter. I can't believe that a guy has to tear into his tractor and remove all the stuff you mentioned just to perform normal maintenance.

Reply appreciated.
Mark