Ford makes progress in quality study; Toyota brand slips

cp1969 · Jun 9, 2007

First, someone said that a vehicle should "only go to the shop for consumables."

Guess what. Every item--bar none--is a consumable item on a vehicle. Some just more so than others. Oil lasts 7500 miles. A water pump lasts 125,000. A transmission 200,000. No component of a car lasts forever.

I would be willing to bet my last nickel that if Ford and Toyota did an experiment that consisted of a swap of badging only, people would heap praise on the vehicle that had Toyota nameplates (but was actually a Ford) and the Ford (actually Toyota) would receive scorn.

Builder · Jun 9, 2007

Kubotasrking said:
You sound like an apologist for Detroit, and I say this as an owner of nothing other than big 3 cars....currently a Dodge 2500 (Cummins of course) and F-150 (wife's car). We will not buy a Japanese truck, we generally aren't interested in supporting anyone else's economy,
Gotta love my dodge though. 126K miles...minor warranty issues. My wife's truck has been pretty awesome too. She has 100K, and we've done some minor work...a pretty darn reliable machine.
My $.02.

depending on the model year of your dodge, it may have been made in mexico, not the US.

Up until about 4 weeks ago, dodge was bought out by daimler (a German company). So thruthfully, any car/truck bought after DC purchased dodge ('99-'00, I believe) is really not a "big 3" vehicle.

shvl73 · Jun 9, 2007

cp1969 said:
Guess what. Every item--bar none--is a consumable item on a vehicle. Some just more so than others. Oil lasts 7500 miles. A water pump lasts 125,000. A transmission 200,000. No component of a car lasts forever.

I would be willing to bet my last nickel that if Ford and Toyota did an experiment that consisted of a swap of badging only, people would heap praise on the vehicle that had Toyota nameplates (but was actually a Ford) and the Ford (actually Toyota) would receive scorn.

My '87 ranger tranny went out around 150,000 (mazda sourced), I had it rebuilt and kept it another 100,000. My '88 town car lasted only 257,000 before I donated it and took a write-off. My '96 Taurus had some shifting problems when I traded it at 186,000. The spouses '98 Escort has 170,000 and still going, although I can't really call a Mexican produced, Japanese design "domestic".

cp1969 · Jun 10, 2007

I didn't mean those numbers to be hard and fast. The only thing I was illustrating is that every component has an expected life and that the numbers go up, but they are still items that wear out eventually.

mjarrels · Jun 10, 2007

I have a 1994 Ford F-150 heavy half ton version with 89,000 miles and it has always had issues of some sort... no more Fords for me. Also own a 1989 Toyota corolla with 123,000 miles and have never replaced anything... still running origional belts and hoses.

mark

shvl73 · Jun 10, 2007

I also had a '85 Toyota pickup. An icy road, a drainage ditch and a tree, wore it out prematurely.

Seriously though, I thought the Ranger was a lot more truck for the $.

RFB · Jun 10, 2007

Ford will have to set a multi year track record to win me back.

I am extremely disciplined about scheduled and preventative maintenance, and I invariably perform and maintain at a level that most folks would consider as beyond overkill. My experience with "big 2":

New 81 Chevy K-15; 2 new A/C compressors, 2 complete valve/head overhauls due to bent valve rods. All in less than 57,000 miles

New 88 Ford T-Bird: new transmission x 2; new rotors x2 (cracking), 3 A/C compressors, long block replacement due to main bearing issues. 67,000 miles

New 90 Ford Aerostar: 1 A/C compressor and 2 new transmissions. All in less than 30,000 miles.

New 96 Ford F250: 2 A/C compressors; Complete ring job. All in less than 36,000 miles

New 2001 F350 7.5L Turbodiesel: 2 complete transmissions; the first at 1500 miles, the second at 25,000.

New 2003 F350 6L Turbodiesel: 2 New transmissions; the first at 500 miles, the second at 1500 miles; also complete replacement of the fuel supply lines. (leaking)

None of these vehicle were abused in any fashion. That has been my experience.

crbr · Jun 10, 2007

RFB said:
Ford will have to set a multi year track record to win me back.

I am extremely disciplined about scheduled and preventative maintenance, and I invariably perform and maintain at a level that most folks would consider as beyond overkill. My experience with "big 2":

New 81 Chevy K-15; 2 new A/C compressors, 2 complete valve/head overhauls due to bent valve rods. All in less than 57,000 miles

New 88 Ford T-Bird: new transmission x 2; new rotors x2 (cracking), 3 A/C compressors, long block replacement due to main bearing issues. 67,000 miles

New 90 Ford Aerostar: 1 A/C compressor and 2 new transmissions. All in less than 30,000 miles.

New 96 Ford F250: 2 A/C compressors; Complete ring job. All in less than 36,000 miles

New 2001 F350 7.5L Turbodiesel: 2 complete transmissions; the first at 1500 miles, the second at 25,000.

New 2003 F350 6L Turbodiesel: 2 New transmissions; the first at 500 miles, the second at 1500 miles; also complete replacement of the fuel supply lines. (leaking)

None of these vehicle were abused in any fashion. That has been my experience.

American made, maybe? That's an evident trend here. Personally I couldn't care any less one way or the other about brand loyalty. The one stanalone aspect about quality, no matter whom is looking for it, is that quality will speak for itself. Sales numbers is about marketing. Quality is about reliability. Apples and oranges.

crbr · Jun 10, 2007

cp1969 said:
I didn't mean those numbers to be hard and fast. The only thing I was illustrating is that every component has an expected life and that the numbers go up, but they are still items that wear out eventually.

I can respect this to an extent but honestly, I see it a bit different, but then again,. I too am a bit different on a lot of things that should be evident to me.

Every component has a designed life and that the numbers go up, but there are still items that wear out and create a dynamic consumer action of replacement. $$$$

cp1969 · Jun 10, 2007

crbr said:
I can respect this to an extent but honestly, I see it a bit different, but then again,. I too am a bit different on a lot of things that should be evident to me.

Every component has a designed life and that the numbers go up, but there are still items that wear out and create a dynamic consumer action of replacement. $$$$

If you mean wear out prematurely, I agree. A water pump should not fail at 30,00 miles. At 120,000 miles, it is not unexpected.