Ford makes progress in quality study; Toyota brand slips

[cdhd2001]

My 1994 Chevy 1/2ton PU with 350/auto has 265k miles.

Major items replaced:

Brakes - 3 times front, 1 time rear
all u-joints at 200K
water pump at 220k
3 clutched fans
A/C low pressure switch at 250k (still has original compressor)
ignition coil at 190k

That about sums it up. No smoke either (except from the back tires!).

 

[390GT]

The common theme I see with most pro-asian car owners that hate American vehicles is they never seem to remember when their asian car was in the shop, but they always remember when their American car was in the shop "way back in the 90's".

And it's like the American press has "programmed" us to always cuss that Dodge caravan for being unreliable when it breaks.....they're supposed to right? Afterall, they're "unreliable" American cars.

Last time I drove around the back of a Honda or Toyota dealership, they had just as many service bays and mechanics as a Ford or GM dealer...and oh, by the way, those Honda & Toyota mechanics were busy, not just standing around drinking coffee.

Toyota recalled more cars than it sold last year. "Unacceptable", I think the Toyota CEO said, but Americans will buy them in droves because the press has equated Toyota with reliability.

I agree with you completely. Greg

 

[Dargo]

After all the hype about how great and trouble free Toyota vehicles are, I broke down and bought a brand new Toyota on 1995. With the size of my family, the Camry was too small so I thought the new Avalon would be great. Everyone told me that it was just a longer Camry with more room. As it turns out, it was by far the absolute worst vehicle I've ever owned. And that's saying a lot. I've owned dozens and dozens of vehicles. Our Avalon spent far more time at the dealer's shop than it did in my garage in the first 9 months. The Toyota dealer quit providing me a free loaner after a month because they said it was just costing them too much. I bought another car to drive while the "reliable" Toyota was in the shop.

After about one year of terrible service from the Toyota, I had to contact our state's Atty General to begin procedures under the Lemon Law. Toyota was beyond terrible to deal with. It seems that when they have a turd they want to blame everyone else and not accept any responsibility. This part of the problem really turned me against Toyota. After uncounted wasted hours the state forced Toyota to buy back my junk Avalon. It still disgusts me to think of all the time I wasted taking that hunk of crap back and forth the the service department, all the times it left my wife stranded on the road, and all the crap I had to put up with Toyota who acted as if they couldn't believe that one of their cars was junk.

I not drive either American based vehicles or Honda vehicles or Acura vehicles. I've had great service out of all of them. And, my Honda and Acura vehicles have more American content than most of the "domestic" brands do. For me, Toyota has been off my list for quite a while. The car was terrible, but their attitude was even worse.

 

[_RaT_]

The common theme I see with most pro-asian car owners that hate American vehicles is they never seem to remember when their asian car was in the shop, but they always remember when their American car was in the shop "way back in the 90's".

And it's like the American press has "programmed" us to always cuss that Dodge caravan for being unreliable when it breaks.....they're supposed to right? Afterall, they're "unreliable" American cars.

Last time I drove around the back of a Honda or Toyota dealership, they had just as many service bays and mechanics as a Ford or GM dealer...and oh, by the way, those Honda & Toyota mechanics were busy, not just standing around drinking coffee.

Toyota recalled more cars than it sold last year. "Unacceptable", I think the Toyota CEO said, but Americans will buy them in droves because the press has equated Toyota with reliability.

My 93 Ford F250 IDI 7.3 non turbo has never been in the shop, I have to fix it myself. If I took it to the shop to fix the issues it as on a routine basis, I'd be broke and own a vehicle that was never home. I've been soured by Fords products. Our Windstar is gone, that makes me glad to be rid of a major headache. I just wait for the day to get rid of the Ford F250 and get something reliable. If I determine that to be Asian, Europeon, American or Martian, then that is what it will be.

 

[Builder]

My 93 Ford F250 IDI 7.3 non turbo has never been in the shop, I have to fix it myself. If I took it to the shop to fix the issues it as on a routine basis, I'd be broke and own a vehicle that was never home. I've been soured by Fords products. Our Windstar is gone, that makes me glad to be rid of a major headache. I just wait for the day to get rid of the Ford F250 and get something reliable. If I determine that to be Asian, Europeon, American or Martian, then that is what it will be.

So your complaining about a 14-15 yr old truck? Or has it been unreliable since new?

BTW: "Martian" sounds interesting. Maybe you can get the intergalactic warp drive option!

Note: We had a Ford Windstar for 5 years. No problems except a noisy power steering pump and a VCR which was replaced free of chg by Ford.

 

[_RaT_]

So your complaining about a 14-15 yr old truck? Or has it been unreliable since new?

BTW: "Martian" sounds interesting. Maybe you can get the intergalactic warp drive option!

Note: We had a Ford Windstar for 5 years. No problems except a noisy power steering pump and a VCR which was replaced free of chg by Ford.

Heck, a 14-15 year old truck is new to me. It has but 160,000 miles. Other then 2 transmissions and more electrical issues then I can recall some still ongoing, well a front end that has been sagging from the weight of a fairly heavy engine on some poorly designed leaf springs, no AC anymore, I have gotten a lot of heavy use out of it. I cannot complain about the mileage at about 17 mpg. My wife hates driving it. In fact the neighbors won't even borrow it! Hey, maybe I'll keep it. I want a small pickup with a little 3, 4, or 5 cylinder diesel that gets 30+ miles to the gallon, you know like the ones everyone else in the world has except us in the US.

 

[jcmseven]

We all have a vehicle that we have either owned or known about that offered bad service. As for the quality assessment, as I said in the very long post about new pickups that has mercifully ended, the American car companies are making really good cars right now. I would say, owning both an Acura MDX now and my new Ford truck, they are both of high quality and have thus far been good for service, but the Ford clearly has better fit and finish. I am not surprised by the JD Power assessment.

John M

 

[texasjohn]

Well, I'm glad that there is the appearance of improved quality.... it's needed.

I could tell you the story of the F350 that we bought new:

About 10,000 miles the first of the Firestone tires stripped its tread off. We now know this, years later, as the famous Firestone tire problem and law suit. I took the tire to Firestone (40 mile trip to Austin, one way) and discovered that they prorated it from full tire price... which brought it down to where I ONLY had to pay about $10 more than a new tire from Walmart. I wrote Firestone off and as EACH of the remaining tires stripped their tread over the next year I ignored their mileage warranty and just replaced them at Walmart.

Front ball joints went at about 20000 miles... recall item admitted 5 years later, but I didn't get reimbursed because work was not done at dealer...

I loaded up 4000 lbs of breeding age bulls into a trailer, pulled forward 5 feet in granny low from the loading dock at the ranch... vehicle died, about 30000 miles. I had to unload them, pickup towed to dealer. About $400 electronic computer something was busted... recall item admitted about 4 years later, paid me about $75.

About 45,000 miles A/C stopped blowing cold... I had it fixed 3 times over the next 1.5 years, then gave up.

About 50000 miles rear wheel grease seal went... replaced along with brakes that it messed up. Went out again in couple thousand miles, replaced, out again quickly, replaced, out again... replaced entire wheel assembly..groan.

62000 miles, engine running very rough... burned valves (yes, always serviced with quality oil and filter) required rebuilt engine..groan. Replaced clutch, too since we were there and it was shot.

65000 miles the heater core started leaking... I just rerouted hoses, living without heater/defroster.

About 70000 miles first one, then the other gas gauges went out... either read full or empty. I just lived with that. I have a relative with Ford pickup, much newer, same problem now.

About 80000 miles radio went.

About 110000 miles fuel pump INSIDE fuel tank went out... quite an expense just to replace fuel pump, which also includes gas gauge sending unit.

I've replaced the starter a couple of times. At least one water pump.

120000 miles on it now... Clutch,again, going.

There were other things, but these few stand out at the moment.

Yes, I could tell you about my F350 troubles, but I won't because it sounds like I'm whining about items that are significant expenses only every 6 months or so and if I had purchased a new pickup every year I would have avoided them and been convinced to continue buying the most popular pickup in Texas.

It all boils down to perception and expectations and nobody purchases an average or typical vehicle (or stock), but a particular specific vehicle.... and everybody's specific experiences may vary.

 

[Kubotasrking]

Toyota recalled more cars than it sold last year. "Unacceptable", I think the Toyota CEO said

You sound like an apologist for Detroit, and I say this as an owner of nothing other than big 3 cars....currently a Dodge 2500 (Cummins of course) and F-150 (wife's car). We will not buy a Japanese truck, we generally aren't interested in supporting anyone else's economy, but, the quote of the Japanese CEO says it all....when is the last time you heard that from an American CEO? Not knockin CEO's...but the short term, quarter-out focus of most top American companies (gotta keep Wall St. happy...)tends to limit the investment in overall quality. BTW, Toyota, as their growth plateaus in the US, will begin to implement cost saving methods in manufacturing and encounter much the same types of problems...and maybe they already are...

Some time ago, I read the Ford family was interested in doing what ol' Henry did a century ago...return to a privately held company. I kinda hope they do. I would support them...

Gotta love my dodge though. 126K miles...minor warranty issues. My wife's truck has been pretty awesome too. She has 100K, and we've done some minor work...a pretty darn reliable machine.

My $.02.

 

[irwin]

In my quarter plus century in auto sales and repair I've met some down right bad vehicles, but mostly the problem auto/truck is just that, a vehicle with troubles. The same year model etc. will be fine with only normal failures. This is true for all vehicles, no matter who built them.. granted some manufacturers are better than others, but all can make a vehicle that will Pl$$ off whoever has the misfortune to purcase it. Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Ford, chevy, BMW, Audi, etc. and any maker can have a happy customer, no matter how many unhappy owners of the same model.

I do have my " do not own " list but this may only be from "the personal experience factor" your experience could be very different.

Having stated this, I believe past present and future auto/truck makers will make some real garbage.. we hope we won't make the wrong decision trying to save money. Hugo is one of these mistakes- although it is possible someone is happy with theirs.