Ford shop can't work on diesel F350, even the u-joint.

[Peacock]

until you get there.

In many cases. But not mine.

 

[Clint S]

True. But then they can make you sign a paper that says you have to pay them back for the training if you leave before X number of years, before you get the training. BTDT.

That is done around here. When they got their jobs both had to sign a waiver saying they have to pay for all training taken over the past year. I have 2 friends that are techs and each time they gets sent to a class they get an itemized printout of all expenses including the cost of the class, which is often ridiculous. I know the one shop tries it's best to keep my friend always in loop meaning he always owes them something. He makes a very good rate though. He may have finally turned it around because for the last 2 years he has been the ONLY certified tech in the dealership for everything and they have to have 1 certified master tech to remain a dealer. The next closest guy still lacks quite a few classes.

 

[crazyal]

I wonder how much of this has to do with Ford (and other mfgs) stating how much they will pay for warranty work. All work being done has a time associated with how long the repair will take and all warranty work has a mfg maximum rate per hour. Most shops say they loose a little or, if lucky, break even on warranty work. If Ford says a tech can remove the cab in 1 hour then that's what they pay the dealer even if it takes 2 hours. Since the dealer can't pass the cost of the extra hour on to the customer they eat it. That will force how much the manager can pay a tech. It could be easier to just not have a tech that can do the work to avoid loosing money.

 

[3930dave]

I wonder how much of this has to do with Ford (and other mfgs) stating how much they will pay for warranty work. All work being done has a time associated with how long the repair will take and all warranty work has a mfg maximum rate per hour. Most shops say they loose a little or, if lucky, break even on warranty work. If Ford says a tech can remove the cab in 1 hour then that's what they pay the dealer even if it takes 2 hours. Since the dealer can't pass the cost of the extra hour on to the customer they eat it. That will force how much the manager can pay a tech. It could be easier to just not have a tech that can do the work to avoid loosing money.

This seems to be a big issue across much of the industry. I've read more than a few threads discussing "Dealer X told me to go back to the dealer I bought it from" for warranty work. What is the point of paying large to drive a new vehicle, then hear nonsense like that ? In my father's day, many people didn't move around much geographically for work - this story might have made sense back then, not now.

Playing hot potato with the costing like this is helping add fuel to the fire associated with the question Tesla (Musk) has posed - "Why do we have to follow an archaic business model ?".

I hope Tesla wins the legal fight, it would open the door for companies like Elio to distribute low cost cars, w/o the traditional cost structures. Not saying this road won't be bumpy, but where the new car industry is now is beyond the cash flow of many people.

Rgds, D.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The reason is 'cause the other dealer most likely discounted deeper knowing that you have a closer dealer you would use for warranty work and thus he didnt have to eat any potential shortfalls on work done later. Its simple - every OEM is trying to pay out as little as possible, to the point that warranty work is NOT a 'cash cow' for dealers anymore. The selling dealer then works whatever potential loss he might suffer (based on past experience) into how far down he is willing to go in selling price. And, that dealer that sold to you at a 'discount' of, say, $2k less than your local dealer, still prolly made a $1k MORE than if he does the work later and you also have more traveling costs.

Sometimes traveling to another dealer farther away to get that 'best price' is not always the best thing to do. Saving that extra grand or two doesnt seem like the best bet now.

 

[3930dave]

The reason is 'cause the other dealer most likely discounted deeper knowing that you have a closer dealer you would use for warranty work and thus he didnt have to eat any potential shortfalls on work done later. Its simple - every OEM is trying to pay out as little as possible, to the point that warranty work is NOT a 'cash cow' for dealers anymore. The selling dealer then works whatever potential loss he might suffer (based on past experience) into how far down he is willing to go in selling price. And, that dealer that sold to you at a 'discount' of, say, $2k less than your local dealer, still prolly made a $1k MORE than if he does the work later and you also have more traveling costs.

Sometimes traveling to another dealer farther away to get that 'best price' is not always the best thing to do. Saving that extra grand or two doesnt seem like the best bet now.

I don't have the cash flow at the moment to be looking at new vehicles, but even if I won a major lottery, I'm not too interested in the modern dealer "experience".

The whole game is a mess today, at least where I am. Do most people (customers) really have to have a huge drive up automatic-door-In-Out staging area just so they can step out and feel like a VIP on their way to the half-inch-thick-marble-tiled floor waiting area, so they can be then handed their Latte-To-Order in a guilded cup ? Or, would most customers prefer to have $20/hr off the labour rate, at a stripped down plain jane looking old school dealership. I don't blame the dealers, obviously it was the factory that put the gun to their heads for these Mega upgrades.

I'd much prefer to see less bling at the dealers, and more F350 U joints getting fixed (I did read along, I know there are other factors in the OPs situation than just bling....)

Maybe you have a point in your example.... but how does the dealer know you aren't about to move into a new house that is closer ?

As far as I'm concerned I'm buying a Factory warranty when I buy new. What the background accounting is between the factory and the dealer is not my concern.

I get the math. The factory knows what the repair should be, hour wise. 5 hours at $65/hr is gonna be obviously less attractive to a dealer than jamming the customer for 10 hours at $100+/hr. When the job realistically takes 5-6 hours.

If the dealers think they have it tough, they should try running an independent all line garage.

It's time to change the national dealer arrangements, practically and legally. I for one would be interested in being able to buy a factory New vehicle without a Warranty, obviously for a reduced price.

Rgds, D.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I don't have the cash flow at the moment to be looking at new vehicles, but even if I won a major lottery, I'm not too interested in the modern dealer "experience".

The whole game is a mess today, at least where I am. Do most people (customers) really have to have a huge drive up automatic-door-In-Out staging area just so they can step out and feel like a VIP on their way to the half-inch-thick-marble-tiled floor waiting area, so they can be then handed their Latte-To-Order in a guilded cup ? Or, would most customers prefer to have $20/hr off the labour rate, at a stripped down plain jane looking old school dealership. I don't blame the dealers, obviously it was the factory that put the gun to their heads for these Mega upgrades.

I'd much prefer to see less bling at the dealers, and more F350 U joints getting fixed (I did read along, I know there are other factors in the OPs situation than just bling....)

Maybe you have a point in your example.... but how does the dealer know you aren't about to move into a new house that is closer ?

As far as I'm concerned I'm buying a Factory warranty when I buy new. What the background accounting is between the factory and the dealer is not my concern.

I get the math. The factory knows what the repair should be, hour wise. 5 hours at $65/hr is gonna be obviously less attractive to a dealer than jamming the customer for 10 hours at $100+/hr. When the job realistically takes 5-6 hours.

If the dealers think they have it tough, they should try running an independent all line garage.

It's time to change the national dealer arrangements, practically and legally. I for one would be interested in being able to buy a factory New vehicle without a Warranty, obviously for a reduced price.

Rgds, D.

I agree..

An option to have a reduced, expanded, or even NO warranty would be awesome. Taylor made warranties, much like insurance.

 

[crazyal]

Now it seams like dealers are pushing the extended warranty. They tell you that you must decide at the time of purchase yet if you shop around you can often find the exact same warranty from a different dealer (one you didn't buy the vehicle from and maybe 5 states or more away from you) for half the price.

 

[Midniteoyl]

There are definitely differences in prices depending on the dealer. I just bought one that pushed the comprehensive warranty to 6yrs and 75k miles for $300 that cost over $800 at another dealer.

 

[3930dave]

Now it seams like dealers are pushing the extended warranty. They tell you that you must decide at the time of purchase yet if you shop around you can often find the exact same warranty from a different dealer (one you didn't buy the vehicle from and maybe 5 states or more away from you) for half the price.

The hard upsell often means:

1) Profit margin is huge.

2) You can do without it.

I'm usually not a fan of extended warranties - If I'm laying out the money for a new major item, it's because it has a long-standing reputation for reliability. (Yeah, I know, I just painted a big bulls-eye on my back for Murphy ! ).

That said, with today's diesels and DI gas motors, I'd definitely price out the extended warranty, after comparing OE standard warranties on equivalent products. In some cases, the standard warranty today can be pretty lame.

Rgds, D.