Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton?

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   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #171  
Cooling system absorbs heat during the compression stroke plus the small amount of leakage past the rings.
You need to study the Carnot cycle used in the Otto gasoline and diesel engine.

The intake air is heated by the head and cylinder walls during intake stroke as well. You can find all that in a Sankey diagram, and indeed a small flow of compression heat to the cooling system, which are both totally insignificant to the improved efficiency of a higher compression ratio. The only reason development on a ceramic engine (able to withstand higher temperatures and compression ratios) stopped, is because further increase of flame temperatures, increase the emission of nitrous oxides.

However, the conditions where the heat loss to coolant from compression cause a lower overall efficiency than the gain in efficency in the combustion cycle, only occur in a severely worn out engine which would only start on a hot summer day with ether.... Which makes your earlier statement correct, however pointless in its context of gas vs diesel :)
 
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #172  
A higher compression ratio does not increase efficiency, a higher expansion ratio increases the efficiency. This is where EFFECTIVE compression ratio and EFFECTIVE expansion ratio vary due to heat, pressure, cam timing , port size ,rpm and throttle if so equipped.
 
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #173  
Still, a higher static compression ratio automatically increases the expansion ratio at allmost the same rate, if no other parameters are changed. Your response to that statement is similar as to when someone says that diesel engine comes at a premium, to answer that luxury cars like Ferrari and Rolls Royce are typically gas fueled and more expensive than a Diesel Jetta. The statement is technically correct, however idle in the debate.
 
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #174  
A higher compression ratio does not increase efficiency, a higher expansion ratio increases the efficiency. This is where EFFECTIVE compression ratio and EFFECTIVE expansion ratio vary due to heat, pressure, cam timing , port size ,rpm and throttle if so equipped.

How does this have anything to do with the topic of the thread....you know, a diesel F150?
 
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #175  
Looks like it's going to be a little 3.0-liter for the F150.
Spied: 218 Ford F-15 Turbo-Diesel - PickupTrucks.com News
I guess that makes sense since they already have the powerful engines with the EcoBoost. They are no doubt looking for an engine to perform better for high mileage users who care mostly about MPGs and can cost justify the up front expense.
 
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton?
  • Thread Starter
#176  
Looks like it's going to be a little 3.0-liter for the F150. Spied: 218 Ford F-15 Turbo-Diesel - PickupTrucks.com News I guess that makes sense since they already have the powerful engines with the EcoBoost. They are no doubt looking for an engine to perform better for high mileage users who care mostly about MPGs and can cost justify the up front expense.

If they package it right (make it available in all trims and cab models) it will fly off the lots.
 
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #177  
   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #178  
More reason to have a smaller fuel efficient diesel rather than a beast:
Ford's New EcoBoost 3.5-Liter V-6 Offers Monster Torque - PickupTrucks.com News
"This new upgraded EcoBoost engine will produce 375 horsepower and a whopping 470 pounds-feet of torque, more torque than any other half-ton including GM's 6.2-liter V-8 in the segment."

I wonder how far they can stretch it. Downsizing and turbocharging is a great way to increase efficiency, for a Diesel because compression ignition doesnt like high RPM and therefor needs displacement, and for the gas engine because of the throttle vacuum loss at low engine load. But VW has come to the point that they are stretching their luck too far. the VW Crafter (Mercedes Sprinter with a different face and engine) is loosing against its stable brother the Sprinter, because the 2 liter TDI 163hp with twin turbos just doesnt have the breath to haul the long run, all these engines burn up. The Merc is doing better, with the 160hp 2.2 liter four, or the 3 liter V6, but at VW it goes wrong, these 2 liter engines burn up in a 5 ton van...

How long before people start treating the Ecoboost as a Cummins and then find out in just a few years why the Cummins has more meat packed in the block ?
More torque in an Ecoboost is for bragging rights only. It invites people to use this engine for what it is not designed to do.

Undoubtedly, the turbo is here to stay in pickup truck gas engines. Though after the first real world figures in heavy towing conditions emerge, demand for Diesel will come back. EPA fuel economy regulations make the gas engine as complicated as todays diesels, while the Diesel emission technology is already simplifying again... Better, less sensitive DPFs, DEF instead of killing the engine with EGR... while direct gas injection is an extra complication for the gas engine.


My guess is that the Ecodiesel and diesel F150 (which are power dense engines designed for a luxury saloon, or a Euro SUV) arent going to last the long run either, hauling commercially in an American pickup truck. And within 5 years when the Ecoboost has a more defined position in the market, Ford will offer the British 4.4 Puma V8 diesel in a reduced output to about 300hp, (to make it last in heavy load collectives) in a 3/4 ton truck...

The EPA is breathing in their neck, demanding lower fuel consumption, while the American consumer isnt ready for the necessary steps yet. So its Ecoboost for those that tow infrequent, ecoDiesel for the frugal buyer that makes a lot of km and hardly ever tows, and a few years from now, a 300hp diesel for people that tow frequent, to fill the void left by the ever increasing numbers in the HD diesels...
 
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   / Ford to try their hand at a diesel 1/2 ton? #179  
How long before people start treating the Ecoboost as a Cummins and then find out in just a few years why the Cummins has more meat packed in the block ?
More torque in an Ecoboost is for bragging rights only. It invites people to use this engine for what it is not designed to do.
From what I have read, the EcoBoost is built like a diesel, so it should be able to handle the power long term.
IIRC, the 2.7L and the V2 3.5L have a CGI block like the 6.7L Diesel.

Aaron Z
 
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