Ford V-6 beats v-8's in towing competition

[Ryan03]

Its not a huge V6.


The Ford is a 3.5L up against the GM 5.3L and the Dodge 5.7L. As for economy I have seen test stating about 24mpg unloaded. I am impressed just like I was with the 3.8L Twin Turbo Grand National when it came out and some of the turbo charged imports. I just wish they could do better than 24mpg.

Chris

Chris, the Buick Grand Nationals are certainly impressive cars, however, buick never made a twin turbo GN, all of them used single turbo's, even the GNX. The earlier ones [T types ]were not intercooled, while the later ones around 85ish to the last year in 87 were intercooled.

 

[brokenot]

Those who buy trucks because they feel manly may drive them unloaded but not those who buy a truck for a purpose. My truck is NEVER empty and has a trailer hooked to it more often than not.

The point is they are trying to convey this truck/engine combo as "better than a V8 when towing" and it clearly is not.

I think what they're doing, is looking for some "middle ground" that has few(er) compromises. I counted the employee pickups when I got to work yesterday.....there were eight on the lot. Exactly none of them were loaded, nor were they towing trailers at the time. Now several of these, (at least), do tow fairly often. There are boat owners, RV owners, etc., as well as home owners that haul things around for a variety of projects. At least some of those vehicles were "up-spec'd" by the owners so that when they had towing/hauling/work to do, they'd be capable of doing it.

Whether or not these are "better than a V-8 for towing" isn't their point at all in my opinion. I see their motive for the comparison as more of an eye-opener for prospective truck shoppers. There have been plenty of replies here from folks that were surprised by the Ford's performance, and this is a tractor/gearhead forum where the members are more likely to be "up" on truck use and performance. More educated on the subject, if you will.

John Q. Public that isn't as "up" on truck use and performance would likely consider any V-6 offering in a full-size truck to be ridiculous. Reading a test comparison or seeing a comparison video may change their mind a bit, and adjust their purchase accordingly. If their trucking "working" versus "non-working" use ratio doesn't warrant the biggest gas-burner or diesel, this is an alternative that offers less performance and capability compromises than what they had to choose from before.

New tech and ways of thinking about stuff like this are rarely a bad thing because it raises the bar for everyone. Getting stuck in a particular mindset often is a bad thing.

I think some of the concerns about longevity of individual components is warranted, but I also think that comparisons to vehicles of twenty years ago is irrelevant in many cases. Temperatures, back-pressures, air-fuel ratios, etc., etc. are more controllable than they've ever been. A sensor here, a module there, and a servo to make an on-the-fly tweak can work wonders for performance/reliability/longevity. A major industry player like Ford isn't going to do the R & D for a project on a scale like this, and then trip themselves up by not taking into consideration how much oil capacity would be appropriate for the application, for instance.

I can clearly remember the early 80's, and all of the grumbling that went on in the shop where I worked. There were mysterious new ECMs and gosh-darn wiring harnesses everywhere. And the d@mn engineers that came up with all of that nonsense designed it all so now it was harder to change the spark plugs.

Funny thing is, that prior to all of that new stuff, 100,000 miles on a vehicle was an accomplishment.

Nowadays you can weld the hood shut for the first 100K....

 

[Diamondpilot]

Chris, the Buick Grand Nationals are certainly impressive cars, however, buick never made a twin turbo GN, all of them used single turbo's, even the GNX. The earlier ones [T types ]were not intercooled, while the later ones around 85ish to the last year in 87 were intercooled.

Yes, I made a mistake when typing.

There is a local guy with a 89 F body Mustang sporting a TWIN TURBO Grand National motor under the hood. I have seen it but never seen it run. I have heard it flat gets it.

Chris

 

[Brad_Blazer]

In theory, a turbocharged engine has a better thermal efficiency than a normally aspirated engine. Otherwise wasted energy from the exhaust stream is aiding the compression work required for the combustion chamber. This has not necessarily been the case for gasoline engines because of knock concerns that limited boost and required premium fuel. The significant difference with the Ecoboost is that it uses direct injection (like a diesel) to get past the knock problem and not require premium fuel.

Ford EcoBoost engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MESSMAKER]

Now if Ford can make a V6 SOUND as good as a V8, I'll be interested, but I'm not counting on it.

I had a BMW 325 with a straight 6 in it. It had factory duals. It was very impressive sounding. A 6 can sound great. It just takes work.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

I said a V6 not an inline 6. There are many great sounding I-6's. Actually, come to think of it, there is a wonderful sounding V6:
Detroit 6V71

 

[Egon]

there is a wonderful sounding V6:
Detroit 6V71

For sure when they are dead silent!:thumbsup:

 

[Big Wave D]

I can get rid of XM and go back to Sirius!

I am pretty sure XM and Sirius merged several years back.

I would think that you could get all of the channels from either.

Just curious, why can't a person get all of each's original content?

I've never had satellite radio.

 

[WH401]

Those who buy trucks because they feel manly may drive them unloaded but not those who buy a truck for a purpose. My truck is NEVER empty and has a trailer hooked to it more often than not.

The point is they are trying to convey this truck/engine combo as "better than a V8 when towing" and it clearly is not.


BIG difference between gas engines and diesel engines and just as much difference in turbos as well. The main killer is the rpms, a diesel will spend most of it's time at around 1500-2500 rpms where-as a gas engine will be more like 3000-4500 rpms. That turbo impeller typically spins at around 100k-150k rpms and about HALF that on a diesel engine. A high-revving small displacement V6 will run higher than normal rpms.
Secondly is the vacuum that's created when the throttle plate on a gas engine closes (you let off the accelerator), this creates a huge spike in air that goes back to the turbo, most of it is bled off via a blow-off valve but it still puts strain on the turbo. The diesel engine does not do this.
Thirdly, a diesel engine holds a TON more oil 10-14 quarts vs 5-7 quarts. This means the turbo which is oil-cooled as a larger supply of "clean" oil that will last longer and typically goes through a larger better oil filter.

Much of the features you mention are common of a naturally aspirated gas engine. An NA gas engine makes torque in the 3k - 4.5k range, like you've stated. The ecoboost on the other hand, starts making peak torque at 1700 rpm. It's exactly like a diesel. You'll run less RPM's because the power you need is on tap at a much lower spot.
Secondly, I would be willing to bet that Ford has implemented a design in the engine to curb the spike in air that is sent back to the turbo. If not these engines wouldn't last long at all. Ford know's they have a domestic buyers behind them right now and they don't want to screw that up.
Thirdly, I'd also be willing to bet that Ford has come up with different oil and filter spec's specifically for this engine, as well as advanced oil cooling features not found on an NA engine.

Comparing the ecoboost V6 to a naturally aspirated V8 is like comparing a diesel to a gas engine. It doesn't compare because other then the fact that they both run on fossil fuels, they are completely different. The debate going on here is the same debate that went on 20 year's ago when diesel's started to show up big time in consumer pickups, (yes I know they were available in consumer pickups before then.) For year's consumers had been all about big V8's for towing and initially were very hesitant about buying a diesel engine in a consumer pickup. Just look at the popularity of a diesel pickup now though. The ecoboost will turn out the same way. In a few year's, all of the manufacturer's will have a similar engine under the hood of their light duty pickups.

 

[slowzuki]

Its still going to be more efficient, its just that 10% less fuel unloaded looks nicer in the mpg stat than 10% less fuel fully loaded towing in the mountains.

I'm sure it will have a few growing pain, direct injection gas motors are getting more common, but they are still fairly new. When I was in school 10 years ago they were all the rage in development looking to hit mainstream right about now. Honda and Mitsibishi were the big GDI engine developers at the time. I'm sure its come a long way since, the big problems were meeting NOx emissions since they burn lean.

See we are NOT talking about light footed around town driveing, the test was balls-to-the-wall towing. And in a test like that... your fuel usage is WAY WAY different.