Foton FT254 over-revving then no start

[bluechip]

Its been our experience with chinese tractors that new pumps and injectors are usually less than the cost to repair them. Swapping the parts is easily achievable by DIYers.

 

[Rich Waugh]

And therein lies the difference between a real, sno-nuff Mechanic and a DIY'er (and, sadly, the majority of those who call themselves mechanics these days) - Parts changers are common, Mechanics are a rare breed, indeed. Over the years my friends and family have taken many vehicles to dealers for service that amounted to nothing more than hopeful parts changing until the problem magically went away. Darn few of them seemed to know enough internal combustion engine theory or basic physics to accurately diagnose the problem and determine the root cause. Many seemed to lack even common sense. Even with their expensive computers. :mur:

Motor vehicles have become so complex that I certainly don't understand a lot of what goes on in them these days. No doubt they're more efficient and environmentally cleaner, but they're just to high-strung for my taste. That's a big reason why I love my simple-minded Chinese tractor. It still operates by the laws of physics I understand and hasn't been complicated to the point I can't (usually) figure it out. And since, according to my wife, I own every tool known to man ( a base canard - there are still lots I want/need to get!), I'm generally able to actually *repair* many issues rather than just installing new parts. Faced with a "modern" vehicle, all I can do is plug in my OBD reader and scratch my head at the results. Sad, really; at only 62 years of age I've become one of those grumbling anachronisms I snickered at when I was a youngster. :laughing: That's undoubtedly why I gravitated to the field of blacksmithing, where some people will actually pay me (sometimes) for my anachronistic and arcane abilities.

I would really love to get myself a "vintage" truck to drive, say a 30's to 50's American pickup or flatbed. Those durable old steeds are now old enough they generally qualify as "antiques" and are thus exempt from the necessity of having computers and nine thousand electronic widgets that I can't fathom. I'd get one too, if I didn't live in such a harsh marine environment. It would be a crime to take a restored old warrior that has survived a half century or more and bring it down here to rust away in just a few years. I do dream about it, though, particularly when I'm fiddling with my "vintage engineering" Chinese tractor. :cloud9:

Rich

 

[rdbigfarmboy]

RD,

I wish you had chipped in earlier.
All the advice I got was that you just can't do anything yourself and the IP has to come out.

Jim did suggest flushing out the governor, and perhaps if I did that a few more times who knows.

Anyway, the IP specialist said, once he pulled it apart, he would have disturbed anything that was stuck. He said there was a fair bit of rust in there, which may have caused some sticking.
It is now all back together and runs well.

The problem is, it is just so expensive to even have the IP assembly looked at, even without the cost to remove and re-install.
From what I was told it was possibly something to do with the governor weights being stuck; although, that was just a guess.

" - [The linkage has stuck. make sure it will move. Its a simple sliding bar or rail. COULD POSSIBLY BE ONE OF THE SPINGS PUSH OR PULL IS OFF. This spring tension action is what acts on the sliding bar like thingy to feed more fuel under a load.] - "

Not sure what you mean by the sliding bar, perhaps you mean you have to pull the governor end off to access. I tried operating the throttle lever back and forth but that had no effect. The throttle control and stop cable were both working fine.

Everyone said you can not remove the governor end of the IP without disturbing something. That still seems hard to believe as it has to be bolted together in the first place, and surely the governor just controls the flow of fuel so should not be too critical for timing.

I did find on the web someone reported an identical problem with one of these machines a few years back but there was no follow-up.

Although the tractor is now working well, and I have a better understanding of the system, it is less than satisfying that it cost me perhaps 1/10 of the cost of the tractor just to fix something that was not even broken, just stuck.

There has to be something else I could have done?

Im glad to see its working correctly. There was just too much complex advise about the issue. these are fairly simple machines. and if you really goof it up the whole distributor pump governor assembly is 400 or so.
Good luck believe in yourself

 

[FotonOwner]

Thanks for the comments,

I keep thinking that I could have tried something else, perhaps another flush out and spraying some of that diesel starter in the air inlet, perhaps a few revs may have unstuck it.
Never mind at least it is running.

I am 62 also and just use the Foton for odd jobs like keeping the road graded when it washes out, or moving a bit of soil, sometimes a tree that has fallen over.
I have just started to use the slasher now as I thought the Foton may not have enough power, but seems to work fine, so will probably do a little slashing on the higher weeds.
The 4wd Toro is much more manoeuvrable around the trees as long as the grass is not too high or wet.
The ground here is rather steep and the Foton hydraulics don't like it when the pump is higher than the tank. I ordered a tank to go on the ROPS bar to give some extra height but it never arrived so can't do too much steep work.

All the best
SD

 

[Bob Rooks]

The ground here is rather steep and the Foton hydraulics don't like it when the pump is higher than the tank. I ordered a tank to go on the ROPS bar to give some extra height but it never arrived so can't do too much steep work.

Darwin surely has his eye on you. If you are working slopes that steep then you should be heading down them or backing up them. Don't even think about traversing them.

 

[rdbigfarmboy]

you might extend the vent hose that comes from the top of the tank fill cap (vent cap) up the side of the rops a couple feet and secure it. This will allow you to do intermitten steep grade work without loosing prime and dumping your oil. Make a bend in the top to keep water out.

 

[FotonOwner]

you might extend the vent hose that comes from the top of the tank fill cap (vent cap) up the side of the rops a couple feet and secure it. This will allow you to do intermitten steep grade work without loosing prime and dumping your oil. Make a bend in the top to keep water out.

Thanks,

Yes, that is basically what the tank kit does, It extends the breather up to a header tank.
I was thinking it would be easy to do as you say, but then you have to ensure that the fluid is filled up into that tube which would not have a big capacity. The breather sometimes vents a bunch of fluid so it may empty a small pipe. I would also have to get it engineered.
Perhaps there are other tractors that have a similar header tanks available as a bolt on.

Any thoughts on how to stop the gear stick knobs from unscrewing. I had to replace one that fell off. Perhaps some epoxy adhesive or Loctite? Considering you may have to remove it one day for servicing.

The XF (low high ratio) gear lever seems much longer than necessary on the FT254 and protrudes inconveniently into the left foot space. It is easy to change gear so does not need to be so long. I was thinking of cutting it down.
Any reason why it needs to be so long?

 

[FotonOwner]

Darwin surely has his eye on you. If you are working slopes that steep then you should be heading down them or backing up them. Don't even think about traversing them.

Yes, the pump is relatively high up compared to the tank, so it doesn't need much of a slope to be level.
It is a little hard to push a trailer up a steep rocky wooded hill behind a tractor.
I dished out all the wheels and screwed them out as far as they will go and it doesn't go too badly.
Main concern is the brakes. When I got it back from my mechanic I found the brakes were not too flash. They had removed the linkage for access and connected the left rod to the obvious (but incorrect) hole which caused the left rod to move backwards, much better when I fixed that.
Hard to get used to the foot brake lock (park), sometimes forget to release it before starting off - can't do the brakes any good.

Getting used to working on the Toro mower across the slope (sometimes no option), it is not that comfortable at times. The track is rather narrow and can't be changed; although the CoG is much lower than the Foton.

Cheers

 

[rdbigfarmboy]

I might try a 3 to 5 gallon jug (oil jug) or maby a 5 gallon jug from one of the car wash stations (car wash solvent) they have a dot rateing and should stand up to hot oil. Maby a brass fitting screwed and gooped into the bottom. Kinda like a radiator overflow reservoir.