Found a coyote, I think

[BMod]

Coyotes are vicious, savage beasts. You can try and create a Disney like caricature of them but they wouldn't hesitate to rip the throat out of your grandchildren if given the oppertunity. They are not dogs or even dog like, they are killers plain and simple.

Oh...kumbiya!

Did you ever stop to think all dogs started out this way? Behaviors can be changed......

 

[sdkubota]

There is a reason wild animals are called wild. I have known numerous individuals that raised badgers, racoons, coyotes, etc from birth and you know they all experienced the same realization...they are wild animals and eventually resorted to being wild and unmanageable. That is why game officials don't want do-gooders trying to save the cute cuddly babies.

 

[Rock knocker]

Coyotes are vicious, savage beasts. You can try and create a Disney like caricature of them but they wouldn't hesitate to rip the throat out of your grandchildren if given the oppertunity. They are not dogs or even dog like, they are killers plain and simple.

Oh...kumbiya!

Yes and no. Given a little bit of time, coyotes would probably become very dog like. Remember, wolves became dogs, probably rather quickly. Domesticated foxes become very dog like in even one generation. Sandy is a coyote, and could act like one. But her children and grandchildren could be very different animals. Clearly, wolves are more adaptable to domestication than other canids. As evidence we only have to look at dogs. The domestication of other canids is distinctly lacking, although this may be from simply a lack of trying. Look at the experiments with foxes in Russia. I think the wolves became dogs so readily, that there was simply no need to try to domesticate foxes and coyotes

Domesticated silver fox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NOVA | Dogs Decoded

 

[cqaigy2]

Coyotes are vicious, savage beasts. You can try and create a Disney like caricature of them but they wouldn't hesitate to rip the throat out of your grandchildren if given the oppertunity. They are not dogs or even dog like, they are killers plain and simple.

Oh...kumbiya!

Of course they're wild, and if i had Grandchildren, i probably wouldn't let them mess with a coyote and a fair number of dogs i've met. Anthropomorphizing wild or domestic animal behavior is a simplistic approach to determining how any animal will react. That doesn't mean that they are inscrutable and behave randomly so its not likely they are looking for an "opportunity" to rip the throat out of everything.

 

[RandyBell]

John I am glad Sandy has someone to work with and comfort her, with the coaxing I believe she will do well there. Keep us informed as I know you will, and good luck on getting the house done.
Randy

 

[Raspy]

Coyotes are vicious, savage beasts. You can try and create a Disney like caricature of them but they wouldn't hesitate to rip the throat out of your grandchildren if given the oppertunity. They are not dogs or even dog like, they are killers plain and simple.

Oh...kumbiya!

Thanks for your note.

I only wish you would have spoken up sooner. It would have saved me the trouble of actually living with one and introducing her to my granddaughters.

I've asked repeatedly, "what is the difference between wild and domestic". "How much of behavior is due to instinct and how much is environment, or upbringing?" "What does wild mean?" Please give some insights. I don't understand how they are "not dogs". Please explain. I'm not claiming coyotes are the same as domestic dogs, but I'm searching for the actual difference. Please tell us more about what you've learned from your experience.

And just so we're clear, I would not want to meet a pack of wild and hungry coyotes out in the forest some night. Not good.

This case is different and interesting because of it's differences. She was raised as a domestic dog, never trained to fear people and never had to kill to eat. She is extremely intelligent, inventive and intuitive. She's a problem solver. She values her family structure and wants to be a part of it. But, then again, I've only known her for six months and I know she's wild. I'm not stupid enough to raise a rattlesnake and pet it's tummy and I'm not willing to make sweeping declarations about all wild animals.

This is where the conversation gets interesting. Myth and hearsay. Target practice. Fear based reactions. Disney caricatures. Bounties. Vicious beasts. Loving and loyal pack mates. Respect for animals. Friends. Sandy pops up and scares the heck out of so many, or offers insight to so many others. What a lightening rod!

 

[RandyBell]

Yes John you are right, as you can see she is a mindless vicious predator, a killing machine
:thumbsup:

Randy

 

[cqaigy2]

Nice picts. Thanks for posting.

 

[The Haymaker]

Either in the same documentary or another one, they showed research in Russia with other wild K9s. I think they were foxes. The researcher were showing how "wild" caged foxes behaved vs foxes that had been breed to remove the wildness from the animals. It took quite a few generations to remove the wildness but the animals still do not pick up on human mannerisms like a dog.

Later,
Dan

Long thread, hopefully I'm not repeating something already said. A few months back, that research was written about in National Geographic. Very interesting article, and it was foxes. They started with the "friendlier" pups in a litter and kept breeding the "winners" on each subsequent generation. They ended up with foxes that showed all the traits of a typical family dog.

 

[Raspy]

Long thread, hopefully I'm not repeating something already said. A few months back, that research was written about in National Geographic. Very interesting article, and it was foxes. They started with the "friendlier" pups in a litter and kept breeding the "winners" on each subsequent generation. They ended up with foxes that showed all the traits of a typical family dog.

Another trait that came out in the study was color. After a few generations they began to get color variations. It seems like the perfect pathway to the domestic dog with all their variations. Then it can be done with size, or a particular hunting characteristic and eventually you have all the sizes, shapes and traits of the dog world. Very interesting.

Then they went the other way and only bred the meanest ones. Wow. pretty soon they had uncontrollable seething beasts that no one could approach.

In our case, we eliminated the affect a mother could have beyond her initial antibodies for health. No training from her at all. Then Sandy was raised by us and by Bei Bei. No one was ever mean to her. We helped her and cared for her. Bei Bei taught her the dog rules.

With the trust she had for us she still had her instincts. Soon she wanted to live outside. Then she built her den. Then she settled in to her daily sleeping/patrolling habits. She was always a bit wary, just for a few minutes, when meeting strangers. She had some hunting instincts and invented the keep away game, but didn't actually become successful at hunting beyond catching a few lizards and ants.

She was pretty clear about protecting her rabbits and would give a mild warning about protecting her gloves. Gloves were her favorite toy.

I also want to stress that we were wary. We were ready to take action if she became dangerous. Instead she played with us and greeted us and went out of her way to be a part of our lives. Was extremely warm and friendly. Joyous. Kind. Fun.

I have never seen behavior in her that would make it dangerous to have her as a domestic pet. We would have loved to keep her, but human fears and human laws made that a bad idea. Not because she was about to tear someone up, but because she was prohibited by law to get rabies shots or medical care. That's it. Prohibited by law to get shots or to get help if she was injured somehow. So she had to go live in a cage. This will prevent her from being a menace to society.

But, on the bright side, it offers so many a chance to learn more and begin to wonder if the pre-conceived notions need to be adjusted a bit. See one up close in a non threatening situation.

I know I've learned a lot. I'm grateful for that. And again, I hope many continue to be involved in this conversation and I hope a lot of people go meet her. Please do!

Rabies is a big concern, as we all know. Why is it a bad idea to give coyotes rabies shots? It works on them as well as it does on domestic dogs. Giving them the shot would not only reduce the spread and fear of rabies, it would also eliminate the agony of that kind of death.