Found a coyote, I think

[Dr_Zinj]

In NY, If it is against the law to have it, then you could very well see a heavy fine for even giving it aid. If the DEC is decent they'll tell you to put it down. This applies to NY law, know this from experience. Might want to check around, especially before posting on a public forum.........oooops to late.

That's one of the reasons I expatriated from New York. Too many stupid laws, and too many ex- and not-to-ex-mafiosos running the government.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...A couple of experts have said she's too old unless there is a younger one with her and they can learn together.

Sounds like the decision to keep her for a while longer has had some unintended very negative effects. I hope all turns out well.

 

[s219]

I wouldn't necessarily be worried about her getting cranky in evenings -- I've seen the same behavior from domestic dogs, and heck, we had a kitten that was h-e-l-l on wheels in the evenings for a bit when he was 6-7 months old. I seem to recall that many puppies and kittens go through a "terrible twos" stage at some point. You just have to show them who's boss, and that can include ignoring them or putting them in a time out.

 

[DABSGT]

John,
S219 must have been reading my mind. I was going to send a similar message. Sounds like a few different things going on. The one that stands out is not wanting to go back in the box, I noticed she sleeps with your glove the reason may be your scent on it,it comforts her. Many complain that there dogs chew shoes when they are home alone that is the reason scent. You may try leaving something with your scent in the box an old shirt. One trick I learned was to use a t-shirt I really sweat in lots of scent. Another thing may be separation anxiety. She realizes it is dark and bed time is near and she is going to be left alone. Where do your other dogs sleep? Remember Pack is important to sandy. You should be the dominate alpha leader as well as your wife, and sandy is missing you at night. Does she sleep near by?

I need to think about it a bit I want a happy ending for your family and sandy.

 

[RandyBell]

John I am not sure how it is going to turn out at this point, I am sorry.
She sounds to be acting kinda like my male does at times, he can get stubborn and refuses to do what you expect from him, he has never made the attemp to bite, but has torn my forearms up fighting to keep from something he didn't want to do. This one one of the rare times he got through the underground fence and I didn't have a leash or anything to use as one. I tried to make him walk by holding his collar, we got about three steps and he rolled on his back and started thrashing with his front paws. I am assuming he was afraid of going back across the fence line, even though I had taken the collar off him. I still don't think he asociates the collar with the shock.
After my wife got me his leash he was fine, go figure.
I don't know the answer and I don't want to lull you into working though it thinking all will be fine, sometimes things don't work out no matter how hard we try, or want them to. It could be something as simple as her not being ready to come in and fighting it, or some inner sense she is picking up.
No matter what you decide it will be difficult and probably weigh on your mind for quite a while, but the decision will have to be yours and your wifes to make and will be done in her best interest.
Tough place to be in, I wish you a lot of luck
Randy

 

[Raspy]

You guys are right.

We have done away with the box and have her on a leash that reaches the middle of the room. All the dog's beds are right there and we are sleeping nearby. She has shirts and sweaters and old shoes, but she had them in her box too.

The last couple of days she has been a lot better. When I take her out at night she is very wary and slow to go, but then she doesn't want to come in. Or, more accurately, she snaps at me if I try to pick her up and she pulls hard against me on the leash. If I let off the pressure, so does she. It's a standoff. So I clip the leash and leave her in the dark, alone, and go back in. A few minutes later I go out and say "inside" and she runs up the steps and waits at the door, happily coming in.

Since she is always associating with the other dogs now, they are playing and sleeping together, she is exhibiting all the traits I'd expect from a domestic dog. Play, submission, mock attacks, and deep rem sleep, to name a few. Plus, if Bei Bei has a ball, Sandy will scheme to get it. Slowly working her way up close, Laying on her back advertising submission, circling. Very interesting to see the tension play out in tactics. If she is revved up in a game with Bei Bei, I get mock biting if I reach out to play with her too. Just hard enough to not be kissing, but not hard enough to damage me or draw blood, usually. Certainly less than the biting she gives and receives form Bei Bei. She tailors her attack even when excited. I say "nice" to her, calmly, several times and reach out slowly to touch her. "Nice". And then pet her back gently and she's out of mock attack mode and just enjoys the touch. It's clear she trusts us, we are all pack members. Then I walk away and she pounces on Bei Bei, who puts up with it to a certain point and them flattens her with a strong Alpha response. Just for a second and then they are rolling around again, deep in play. The two of them are completely bonded. Today I took Bei Bei with me on some errands for an hour and while I was gone Sandy was looking for her.

At this point, except for the night time wildness, she's a domestic dog in every way except, maybe smarter. The trusting and loving part, where she is completely vulnerable and happily puts her fate in my hands, is the most touching. In spite of the fact she's a wild thing and wary by nature and cautious, she can completely trust too. Little does she know how tenuous her future is.

In a bigger sense, all coyote futures are tenuous. But they usually win through luck, wariness, stealth, intelligence and pack coordination. In this case, and so far, she has won through luck in the beginning, and then trust. But also through a connection to human emotions that is really powerful. We see who she is, her personality and needs. How fun and honest she is.

 

[scrappy isb67]

Don't give up on her yet, there WILL be problems. as you have seen. but you have to adapt and overcome. you are doing good with her so far and I am sure you can keep her as long as you are creative with your approach to her misbehavior.

 

[DABSGT]

John have you taken the other dogs out with her at night? If not give it a try if she sees them going out then back in she may follow. It is called contagous behavior. She should soon follow what they do. Bring out the one who is alpha. Good luck

 

[RandyBell]

John I am glad it is going better, I agree take the other dogs out with her at night maybe she is afraid to go out without the others. I know at night mine always go out together and Shadow will stand and wait for Weasel to head for the door before she will, but he thinks he has to be first to do anything.
Is Sandy using teeth with her kisses? We broke ours of that one, by telling them no teeth and not taking the kisses like that, couldn't have been to hard on them Weasel comes and gives me kisses before he goes in the bedroom to go to sleep. Like children you get out what you put in.
I am glad to hear that it is going better when you don't (force) her, if she thinks it is her decision maybe she will make the right ones more often.

Have fun

Randy

 

[Depmandog]

We always break our pups of biting by "biting them back". Not literally...as soon as the pup bites, take your hand, wrap their lip between your fingers and their teeth and squeeze till they yelp all while saying NO BITE!

You are essentially biting them with their own needle sharp teeth. It doesn't take too many times before a simple No Bite command will immediately stop the play biting.

 

[Raspy]

She has had a long day and has been exceptionally good today.

We travelled about 140 miles to my mother's house with her and the other dogs and the cat, in the car. No problems. Bei Bei kept her in line with an occasional snap.

At my mom's she was completely submissive with her dog and had a nice time in the house playing and getting her picture taken. Then we went on for another 120 miles or so and arrived home. She was great.

At home tonight she spent a while tied up out in front as peaceful as any domestic dog. I sat with her for a while and talked to her as I stroked her back and shoulders. She looked off into the distance, hearing things I could not.

Now she's in and trying to get the cat, who sits and bats Sandy while growling. The cat won't give an inch and Sandy wants to play. Very cute.

She seems so tame until she gets wrapped around something and I have to reach in and free her. She is trapped and I am reaching in. Snap, snap. Gloves on and we set her free. Then she's playful and happy again.

So, that's the update for tonight. She is fine and tomorrow I'll try to find out more about a new home for her.

I really appreciate and enjoy reading all the great letters and suggestions from you guys! Some of them have really helped and it's good to know there are some real dog lovers out there. Thanks.

More later.

 

[dusty74]

I wish I could say that she will come around and don't give up on her, but I am glad you are keeping an opened mind with her. You are correct her would not have made it without your folks help. Not sure if MOM was just moving her to a new den or what it does not matter. What matters now is how you go forward and it sounds like you have a good grasp of the situtation

 

[scesnick]

Raspy,

i have been folowing this post with great interest. I live way out in the boonies and encounter Coyotes quite often.
it is obvious you beame attached to this coyote, and with good reason. I say keep her. or atleast give it a try. Yeah, I know you catch crap for it but she obviously is attached to your family and is part of her "pack".

I once found a wild beast also and she has stuck with me now for 6 yrs. ( see pic )

 

[Raspy]

Today I unleashed Sandy and ler her roam. We were outside with the other dogs and casually kept an eye on her until she disappeared into the brush. About 5 minutes later she reappeared and strolled by. Just to check in I guess. Then off again. Another five minutes and she was back for a drink of water and a nice greeting for the pack. Then in for a long nap.

Later I carried her out again. She seemed completely uninterested in going out. I let her go and she wandered off to visit a pinion tree and investigate a flapping piece of plastic bag nearby.

I lost track of her again, but a few minutes later she jumped up in a nice greeting and put her paws on my lap as I sat and waited. A quick greeting and mock growl with Bei Bei, just to say hi to her too, and she was off again.

She is scratching around under another tree nearby, digging and sniffing at rocks. Completely content.

She won't come when I call her but she is staying close and checking in every few minutes.

Next time by I'll greet her give her a treat and a warm greeting.

So she is tasting some freedom and seems very happy. Not at all trying to get away. Greeting us with every pass near the porch. Very cute.

The less we restrict her the happier she is and the nicer she is. Doing away with the box really helped. And now this.

More soon.

 

[RobertBrown]

Thanks for this thread John.
Coyotes seem to be impacting more and more people including myself as of late. It's great to have this insght into thier behavior.
Sounds like things are improving for the time being.
It's a lot to expect from a wild canine, that is, becoming an inside pet dog.
I don't have any experience with raising coyotes, but I have raised and trained my share of dogs, and since you seem to be open to suggestions I thought I would offer up one with the caveat, that again: I have no experience with situations such as yours.
I suggest that do not allow this yote to put her teeth on you for any reason. It seems to me you have mentioned that this behavior hasn't been discouraged. I wouldn't necessarily discipline her for this but I would certainly discourage it by avoiding it. I learned this from an old dog trainer when I had my first dog of my own and I've never forgotten it, and I won't allow my dogs to bite my hand in any fashion at any age. I think it makes it easier for the dog to understand who is in charge.
I'm not real comfortable telling anyone how to treat or raise thier pets especially in this case, but I wanted to let you know what I've learned.
It might be of some use to you.

 

[Depmandog]

I know that I have chimed in a couple of times with training suggestions. Perhaps unwanted, perhaps not viable with a coyote. That said, I do have one other suggestion, and I have no qualms about sharing.

You mentioned she would not come to her name. When we were training our pups, we would let them out, then when it was time to come in, I had a coffee can full of hard treats - when rattled would make a heck of a racket.

I would shake the can, then say "inside". It didn't take long for them to associate the can noise with a treat. Then to associate "inside" with the act of coming inside.

We did the same thing only using their names, but we did that both inside and outside varying the training location and at different times.

After a few weeks the can went away, and we used the treats for other training.

 

[Raspy]

Robert,

I think that is an excellent suggestion. She now has several ways of biting that range from love to anger to fear.

She is growing and getting stronger. She may become wilder. We need to reduce the likelihood of being bitten to as low as possible. When she feels trapped or scared there is no telling what might happen and it's better to have proper habits established, if possible, in advance.

When she is sleepy and affectionate, laying on her back and wanting her tummy scratched, she also has her mouth wide open and wants to close it gently to show her love, it seems. It's one of the behaviors that has really touched me coming from a wild animal. Later, when I'm trying to untangle her leash, she is less patient and bites more firmly. Not mean or real dangerous, but more serious. I tap her nose and say no, but it only makes it worse. Then at times she's frightened and it gets ramped up a notch.

At first I thought it was best to establish a bond with her and I encouraged play. Biting is part of play. But I think you are right, at this point, and limits need to be set. Maybe it's just the next phase as I had no idea what kind of a connection we might be able to establish in the beginning. Now I see she's just a regular dog in most ways.

One of the mysteries being solved is, can a coyote be trained to do more than survive in the wild? It seems so. Intelligence is not the question so much as willingness, or human compatibility.

I appreciate your input.

 

[Pettrix]

Are you going to keep it as a pet or release it to the wild when it gets older?

The drawback of the latter is that it will NOT have a natural fear of humans, which can get it into trouble.

If you plan on keeping it as a pet, it will eventually try and establish alpha dominance. I know a guy who has those half wolf dogs. Throughout their lives they will vie for alpha dominance which can turn very bad, very quickly for the human. Wolves, along with coyotes, have a pecking order and it is part of their nature to occasional challenge that order. Unfortunately that means you might get challenged and bit.

There is a reason WHY they breed the wild OUT of dogs. It is for our own safety.

 

[Raspy]

Pettrix,

I think if you read my earlier posts you'll understand better what my intentions are, and the problems. This situation is not yet settled.

 

[RobertBrown]

Typically I would start to teach a dog at 3 months and training around 9 depending on the dog and the sphere of cognizance. That's when you start to have expectations. After about 2 years, the dog will or should have a clear understanding of what is expected, and behave accordingly. That's when the work should really start to pay off.
According to what you've wrote (and I realize this information is subjective) this pup is a lot smarter than the average. It could be that the sooner you start training the better off you are.
It may be time for sit, stay, and come. The limits of this creature's intellect may be well beyond what one would expect from a dog. After all, you are on uncharted ground so to speak.
The big issue is you don't get to make a lot of mistakes, you're not likely to get another shot at this.
I don't think anyone has ever accused a coyote of being stupid, on the contrary, the are held in high regard for their ability to problem solve, and most will tell you they will be here long after we are not....along with cockroaches....for what that's worth.
Again, I want to thank you for this comprehensive look into a wild animal's personality. This is useful and interesting information.
give the video another thought.........If a picture is worth a thousand words, video is priceless.