Fram issue?

[Dargo]

I'm not making their policy nor am I commenting on it; I'm just telling you what I'm told is fact from the Dodge dealers with which I'm well acquainted. I know for a fact that one of the largest Dodge dealers in the country has had Chrysler Corporation not honor engine claims on their Cummins diesel engines because the customer used a Fram oil filter. You seem irritated at the messenger, me. That will get you nowhere. I don't make their policy, nor can I have any influence on changing it. The 4th largest Dodge dealership in the country's service manager lives a few houses down from me, and we are good friends. He, too, is only telling me the facts. Would you like to be in his shoes and have to tell a customer that they have to pay over $15,000 for a complete engine replacement at the dealership because they used a $2.50 Fram oil filter rather than a more expensive Cummins Fleet Guard or Mopar filter? I'd have to venture to guess that not a single customer who has been in that position has said "oh, no problem, do I write my 15k check to the dealership"?

If you want to fight Chrysler Corporation, have at it. Myself, I'll just figure that they have a reason they don't like Fram filters, (don't know why, and don't care why) and I'll go ahead and spend the $9.00 or so for the required filter. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif By the way, I've seen nothing where Fram is trying to sue Chrysler Corporation for requiring their customers to use specific oil filters while under their warranty. In my way of thinking, if Chrysler is footing the bill, they can very likely specify a higher quality oil filter. If you are out of warranty, I doubt they would care of you made your own oil filter out of a beer can with paper towels in it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[durganman]

I checked the following link and it appears that Chrysler is not honoring the warranty if Fram filters are used on diesels.

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2001/09-004-01.htm

 

[5030]

I carefully read and re-read the TSB, and no where in the bulletin, could I discern any mention of Fram/Allied Signal either directly or assumed.

It did state the other manufacturers/OEM filters were recommended and not just Fleetgard or Mopar......even competors filters......i.e: Motorcraft/Ford.

I will say the Fram wasn't listed either pro or con but then neither was Hastings or Wix.

If we were to assume that the OEM's written word was the "Holy Grail", then there would be little lattitude for deviation. Is it?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

That is for you, as the end user to contemplate.

 

[zekeman]

durganman
nice find, For those of us who read this thread before the Moderators cleaned it up, its no surprise that its not good enough for some people.

Dargo
keep the info coming, as we can tell - "Occupation" does not either Qualify or Disqualify ANYBODYS responses

Ron

 

[sneaky_pete]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I carefully read and re-read the TSB, and no where in the bulletin, could I discern any mention of Fram/Allied Signal either directly or assumed.

It did state the other manufacturers/OEM filters were recommended and not just Fleetgard or Mopar......even competors filters......i.e: Motorcraft/Ford.

I will say the Fram wasn't listed either pro or con but then neither was Hastings or Wix.

If we were to assume that the OEM's written word was the "Holy Grail", then there would be little lattitude for deviation. Is it?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)</font>

By federal law, Chrysler cannot tell you which filter (or oil, or any other maintenance item) you must use to keep the warranty in force, unless they supply the filter (or oil or other maintenance item) to you for free, hence the wiggle room in the posted TSB link.

Here is the relevant code, from the FTC:

“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name...”

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))

 

[cp1969]

I have an '03 Dodge Cummins and nowhere in the owner's manual is Fram singled out by name as being a possible voider of warranty.

There is a line in the manual that says "Only a high quality MOPAR filter should be used to ensure most efficient service." There is also a caution note to the effect that "The filtering medium of other aftermarket filters may disintegrate. Debris from failed filters may plug the piston oil cooling nozzles, resulting in scuffed pistons and engine failure."

One would think that the owner's manual would be the place to make it known that using certain aftermarket products could void the warranty. TSB's are not something that the end user pours over on a frequent basis.

Having said all that, I would probably leave the old filter on if Fram was the only choice of new filter I had available. A clogged filter that is bypassing is better than one that disintegrates. Fram, at one time, was widely counterfeited. I think a lot of their bad reputation came from the counterfeits, not from real Frams. I doubt that the filter for the Cummins is widely counterfeited (PH8A's and whatever fit a small block Chevy would be more common), but why risk it? A Fleetguard Stratopore is less than $10.

 

[soarkrebel]

Dargo I wasn't irritated with you and sorry if it came across that way.
But i just didnt think chrysler would come out and attack fram without some litagation about a failure directly related to fram.

The TSB doesnt doesnt specify fram as bad. the website administrator added his thoughts and opinions. he gave hearsay .
I usually try and stay out of mechanical discussions . i have enough of them 10 hours a day. but i do know that manufacters usually try and solve a problem with a product pretty quick thier futures depend on it.
At least the direct vendors i deal with do.

But i didnt intend to make you feel that i was attacking you ,if i did i apoligize.

 

[JerryG]

I know that it isn't scientific, but when the Fram thing started, I cut a few apart. After looking at several Frams and also other brands, I quite using Fram. I will not use a Fram again. I can understand what was being said in TSB about disintegrating. That is after cutting a few Frams apart.

 

[Junkman]

As was stated earlier, there were a lot of counterfeit Fram filters being sold and there is no way that the average person could or would know if they purchased a genuine Fram filter or a counterfeit.

 

[JerryG]

I understand that Junkman, but I have cut them apart over several years. I also understand that some versions of the Frams may or may not be of higher quality than the standard one that I have examined.