frame nuts?

[mikehaugen]

Okay... so this isn't a tractor question but... I am changing the steering box on my sister's '04 grand cherokee and to get to the mounting bolts I need to remove the washer fluid tank, but to do that I need the get the sway bar out of the way. I thought I would just remove the mounting bolt for the bushing brackets, but that's where the problem is.

I got three out and the fourth came out about three turns then got stuck. I was using an impact and it broke loose the "nut" that seems like it was welded inside the frame. So now the bolt is loose and spins freely. I can't tighten or loosen it. The frame is boxed so I can't do much. Any suggestions?

Also, does anyone know if the front of the frame tubes are open? If I pull the bumper off, I can probably reach it. Then I could just cut the bolt and put a real nut on the inside of the frame. I may just weld the bracket on if I have to.

 

[haveissues]

Can you reach the back side and cut a hole in the frame with a hole saw large enough to get a socket in there?

 

[tcartwri]

Zip the head off with a cut off wheel, then use a threaded insert for the replacement.

 

[the old grind]

One option: Remove bumper and LS EA unit. Confirm access to the offending nut thru the front frame horn. Grind off the bolt head and remove the box. Poke the bolt/nut into the frame and remove with a magnet. (Grind the bolt shorter first if longer than the frame is wide.)

Solder or weld a med-stiff wire to a replacement nut so that it can be reached in & held in position to start on a new bolt. (have done this elsewhere up to 30" or so 'deep' when installing hitches) Be sure that you pre-check the nut to spin freely on the bolt beforehand so it's easier to hold from turning when drawing up/tightening the new bolt. A nick in the wire close to the weld/solder/braze may allow the wire to snap off close if the nut turns just enough before it bites in when tightening. (Girls don't like rattles)

There are sometimes openings in a frame that would allow access near to and nearly opposite the busted nut's position, but I doubt you'd see them on the GC's frame anywhere near there. Could be an alternate way in vs thru the front end of the frame, but I wouldn't count on you being that lucky.

 

[mikehaugen]

Can you reach the back side and cut a hole in the frame with a hole saw large enough to get a socket in there?

No, I can't really get to any part of it.

One option: Remove bumper and LS EA unit. Confirm access to the offending nut thru the front frame horn. Grind off the bolt head and remove the box. Poke the bolt/nut into the frame and remove with a magnet. (Grind the bolt shorter first if longer than the frame is wide.)

Solder or weld a med-stiff wire to a replacement nut so that it can be reached in & held in position to start on a new bolt. (have done this elsewhere up to 30" or so 'deep' when installing hitches) Be sure that you pre-check the nut to spin freely on the bolt beforehand so it's easier to hold from turning when drawing up/tightening the new bolt. A nick in the wire close to the weld/solder/braze may allow the wire to snap off close if the nut turns just enough before it bites in when tightening. (Girls don't like rattles)

There are sometimes openings in a frame that would allow access near to and nearly opposite the busted nut's position, but I doubt you'd see them on the GC's frame anywhere near there. Could be an alternate way in vs thru the front end of the frame, but I wouldn't count on you being that lucky.

This is what I figured I will have to do, just don't want to go through pulling the bumper off because of all of the plastic crap, and then find out that the frame isn't open in the front. I am also not sure what airbag sensors I will find, or how to handle them... will the airbags deploy with the car off? I guess it would be best to disconnect the battery just in case. Btw- the bolt that I am having the issue with is the sway bar bushing bracket, not the actual gearbox. It is the one on the passenger side and is only probably about 8 inches from the front of the frame so if it is open I can probably reach it with a wrench. The bolt come up from the bottom through a nut (or some sort of threaded insert) on the inside of the frame.

I looked for other access point but can't really find anything, just a few holes on the sides of the frame about 3/4" round. I will look one more time before I start to pull off the bumper.

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'd check with a body shop that deals with these on a regular basis- they might be able to suggest a way And be careful of the air bag sensors; find out how they're triggered and if bumper removal could deploy them.

 

[the old grind]

I've yet to see a manual that didn't advise de-activating the SIRs by just removing the fuse, say when working on the s-wheel or column, and not resetting radio/clock/security by disconnecting the battery (still a safe bet, tho) That's all it should take. "Got manual?" (Chilton, Haynes..)

 

[mikehaugen]

"Got manual?" (Chilton, Haynes..)

No, it's not my car and I didn't think I would need one for a steering box. I really don't waste my money on haynes manuals anymore anyway, chiltons seem a little better but since I mainly only work on my own vehicles (and sometimes close friends/relatives) and I keep vehicles forever I usually invest in factory service manuals. Actually it was pretty easy going until this happened.

So for now I will call it somewhat of a success. I pulled the bumper facia off this morning and I was able to get right into the frame tube without even pulling the bumper. The nut was luckily a hex and I was able to reach it with a wrench, so that and a 24" breaker bar and I was able to get it off... didn't even have to cut it. I was leary using a cutoff wheel because I would have had to have it about 1/2" from the plastic radiator tank- one small slip and this job would have gotten even worse. Now to replace those stupid plastic clips from the facia... I broke about half of them, but they don't look like they were intended to be reusable anyway.

Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[JPRambo]

I beleive you will find it is a 1 inch square nut that is held in place by a square 'keeper' that is welded to the frame. That is what keeps the body on the frame of older cars. I found this when replacing the floor panels in a '65 chevelle. I had to cut the bolts to remove the body then cut the 'keepers'. then I made the nut ( no one stocks these) and then weld the keeper back in place over the nut.

 

[the old grind]

... I really don't waste my money on haynes manuals anymore anyway, chiltons seem a little better but since I mainly only work on my own vehicles (and sometimes close friends/relatives) and I keep vehicles forever I usually invest in factory service manuals. Actually it was pretty easy going until this happened....

Thanks again for the help everyone.

I always preferred Chilton to Haynes for the easier indexing and better illustrations, many more pages, excerpts from OEMs ... until Haynes took over and merged the brands. Pics are a lot better than the older Haynes and some of the illustrations/extras remind of the more user friendly Chiltons of old. Perhaps as often as I've taken on a new job (charitable, if you will) the 'customer' would pay for parts & a manual that I could keep for doing the work (and/or to 'revisit' the vehicle/model). I had to build a bookshelf to pile them onto, and if there's a brand of book I always favored for depth and ease of use it was Clymer (motorbikes).

Good news is that the OP got 'er done without major hassle. :thumbsup:

 

[ray66v]

I have been lucky enough to not have worked on one of these for a long time. But, here is what I can offer.

These fasteners are tack welded to the inside of the frame rails. And, due to poor quality fasteners, the welds commonly break loose, rather than just work like they are supposed to.

To remove the existing bolt, you need to either cut the head of the bolt off with a carbide wheel, or if you are really good with a torch, and can do it without starting the whole thing on fire, use that.

The rest of the bolt will fall off on the inside, and should be of no consequence.

After removal of the steering box, you obviously need to determine the best way to replace the missing nut.

Ideally, you find a serrated flange nut like the photo, and find a way to fish it in there. The serrated flange will stop the nut from spinning, as you tighten it with an impact wrench. No wrench would be required on that side. You can still usually do this with with a regular nut if necessary.

You can weld a steel wire to the new nut, to help fish it in there, if you find an access point. There are usually openings periodically in the bottoms of frame rails for manufacturing purposes, if you are lucky there is one near by.

If you can't find any way in there, you can either remove the bumper, (still a long way to fish it back there), or make a small hole.

If it's my car, I would make a small slot in the bottom of the frame rail, below where the bolt goes, stick the nut to an open end wrench with some putty, and hold it in there.

 

[crazyal]

Are there any larger hoes near it? The hitch I put on my last car used a wire with what looked like a spring on the end to fish a bolt into a hole. The new bolt screws onto the spring end of the wire. You push the wire into the large hole so it comes out the hole you need the bolt in and then you just carefully pull the bolt through. Since the bolt and nut are new you can tighten the nut up without the bolt spinning. Here's a video.

Using Fish Wire for Trailer Hitch Installation Video | etrailer.com

 

[rsallen]

A sway bar mount?
Why bother to fish a cut off bolt out? Use an insert and use a bolt to secure it.
Dust off your hands...Fini.