FRONT HYDRAULIC KUBOTA L3200

[MDAIII Avdo]

In the meantime:
By some logic we put in a T piece and made an extra inlet in the LOW pressure inlet (to the tank) hopefully that's ok. With one way of the cylinder for the trailer, we think that the same hose will return the oil through the LOW pressure outlet, when pressing the handle to the other side. Now from the T exit we made a new quick coupling, which in this case is the RETURN from the ditch. With the fact that the handle of the NEW valve must be turned on in order to give pressure to the backhoe. All this is logic, we are not sure how accurate it is..... Hamza's father ......sorry for my bad english

 

[Hamza]

In my case, since I'm using a double acting cylinder as single acting, I only run one hose from the remotes to the cylinder. The non used port of the cylinder has a breather. It can't be plugged.

In Hamza's case with the backhoe, he can simply plug the backhoe to the new remotes (nice and clean install btw) and hold the lever with a bungee cord or fabricate some kind of holder for the lever.

The only thing to keep in mind, is to make sure in whatever direction the lever is pushed, the fluid must enter the backhoe valve using through the P port of the backhoe valve, because there is the risk of feeding the backhoe using the Tank port which is a bad thing.

Hii

Thank you for instal !!

I understand so i need to connect backhoe on high pressure OUT and higH presure IN not LOW PRESURE OUT ?

The father post the scheme up you can see there how we connected it right now
We connected it on LOW pressure out !!!
Not correct ???

 

[Hamza]

First off, great job on the install!!! And nice clean shop area... Secondly, Sorry but I do not know the answers... I know very little about backhoes and even less about plumbing a single action cylinder with a Kubota.

I would suggest that you post another question asking "How to mount/use a single action cylinder with L3200 and a backhoe?" Link that thread back to this thread...

I'm afraid this thread might not draw enough attention from the right people. And the fact that this is a whole other question vs. just asking about Front hydraulics (which normally would imply, simple hydraulics for a grapple).

In the new thread, tell them about the dump trailer. Were you going to have the backhoe on at the same time as the dump trailer??? Or are you asking about plumbing with the backhoe lines??? (I'm confused, now)

The other reason to start a new thread about using a single action hydraulic cylinder is that I don't recall ever seeing one!!

Other than ptsg mention above... ptsg, so did you only run one line to your single acting cylinder and cap off (not use) the other line (dead heading it?). That still doesn't answer the backhoe question...

When the backhoe is not on, I THINK there is a bypass hose that is connected in place of the backhoe... (not sure if that helps).

Thank you for your support thrue this whole situations you helped me a lot

 

[old and tired]

Your Dad's English is better than some of my friends, don't worry about it!!!

I think the way you have it looks correct BUT as little as I know about backhoes and single action cylinders. ONLY thing I would worry about is if the Return from the backhoe might be too high pressure. I think I've seen where you can dump the return hose into an adapter that screw directly into the Hydraulic filler cap (usually Red). Unscrew the cap, replace it with one that has a hose barb fitting.

I would love to see someone with more hydraulic knowledge about backhoes, give their blessings...

Low pressure return hose I think sees 600 psi (total guess here).

Can you tell or show us more about the backhoe? Have you used it before (hooked up and running) or is this new to you, too? Photo of the valve, I guess - NOT that it would mean much to me, someone else might spot something about it!!!

 

[ptsg]

In the meantime:
By some logic we put in a T piece and made an extra inlet in the LOW pressure inlet (to the tank) hopefully that's ok. With one way of the cylinder for the trailer, we think that the same hose will return the oil through the LOW pressure outlet, when pressing the handle to the other side. Now from the T exit we made a new quick coupling, which in this case is the RETURN from the ditch. With the fact that the handle of the NEW valve must be turned on in order to give pressure to the backhoe. All this is logic, we are not sure how accurate it is..... Hamza's father ......sorry for my bad english

This is a good way and the safest way to do it. Pressure out of the remotes to the backhoe and a direct Tank route from the backhoe to the tank/transmission of the tractor. Mark the quick disconnects so you can't accidentally swap them and you're good to go.

For the dump trailer. What happens with a single hose cylinder is that, when you're lowering the dump trailer, you push the lever the other way and you're now pressurizing the other port on the remote you didn't use to the relief pressure until the dump trailer is all the way down. This tends to put extra heat in the system, however, it's usually a short duration so it's not an huge deal, specially if you keep the engine at idle so it pushes less flow through the relief valve.

For the dump trailer only - Since you're already have a quick disconnect directly to the Tank, you can have a short hose made with quick disconnects that will connect the non used remote directly to the tank so you don't push fluid at max pressure through the relief when lowering the trailer.

 

[Hamza]

Hi

I will attach pictures here of my backhoe
*Bobcat X320*
Little background story

"I bought it used the previus owner used it on antonio carraro *he also needed to hold lever on valve to use it* we tried it while we were buying it and it worked well it has 2 hoses that need to connect to the tractor. When we bougt it we didnt know that this fluid return can be a problem so we didnt ask him how did he solve that but he was using diferent tractor i think he culdn't help as anyways... because antonio carraro has difrent hydraulic sistem.

 

[ptsg]

Hi

I will attach pictures here of my backhoe
*Bobcat X320*
Little background story

"I bought it used the previus owner used it on antonio carraro *he also needed to hold lever on valve to use it* we tried it while we were buying it and it worked well it has 2 hoses that need to connect to the tractor. When we bougt it we didnt know that this fluid return can be a problem so we didnt ask him how did he solve that but he was using diferent tractor i think he culdn't help as anyways... because antonio carraro has difrent hydraulic sistem.

Read the markings on the valve. I can see on the 4rd picture that it's marked with Out. That should be your return. I would like to see a picture from the other side to make sure that's indeed the Pressure In.

 

[Hamza]

This is a good way and the safest way to do it. Pressure out of the remotes to the backhoe and a direct Tank route from the backhoe to the tank/transmission of the tractor. Mark the quick disconnects so you can't accidentally swap them and you're good to go.

For the dump trailer. What happens with a single hose cylinder is that, when you're lowering the dump trailer, you push the lever the other way and you're now pressurizing the other port on the remote you didn't use to the relief pressure until the dump trailer is all the way down. This tends to put extra heat in the system, however, it's usually a short duration so it's not an huge deal, specially if you keep the engine at idle so it pushes less flow through the relief valve.

For the dump trailer only - Since you're already have a quick disconnect directly to the Tank, you can have a short hose made with quick disconnects that will connect the non used remote directly to the tank so you don't push fluid at max pressure through the relief when lowering the trailer.

You are sure about this red section that i marked in red ?

Im not taking youre opinion into question but i want to double check it

Because im affraid to damage something like " making huge pressure in oil tank and making boublles in it"
You are saying that i need to connect to low presure return not on high presure return am i correct ?

 

[ptsg]

You are sure about this red section that i marked in red ?

Im not taking youre opinion into question but i want to double check it

Because im affraid to damage something like " making huge pressure in oil tank and making boublles in it"
You are saying that i need to connect to low presure return not on high presure return am i correct ?

Follow your Dad's diagram on post #21. That will work perfectly fine for the backhoe.

 

[Hamza]

Read the markings on the valve. I can see on the 4rd picture that it's marked with Out. That should be your return. I would like to see a picture from the other side to make sure that's indeed the Pressure

Follow your Dad's diagram on post #21. That will work perfectly fine for the backhoe.

Thank you !!!

 

[ptsg]

Thank you !!!

No problem. Let us know how it goes and feel free to ask loads of questions if you feel the need to. We're here to help anyway we can.

 

[old and tired]

So, I don't know much about the backhoe but I do know the L3200 (same as my L2800). Is it the same size that we have over in the USA?? Or is it better built over there? Our tractors are "Category 1" was that Antonio Carraro a "Category 2" tractor by any chance?

That backhoe, without a subframe, could break your L3200 tractor... crack the rear housing or crack it at the bell housing. I gave away my Long 1199 backhoe because it was way more powerful than what my tractor could handle. My hoe on a 6,000 pound bulldozer; stripped out all six top-link bolts.

My guess, is that your tractor will be dragged around pretty easily. I did not see any out riggers on the backhoe either, outrigger are used to stabilize the tractor. Are you thinking of building some?

Also are you planning to build a subframe for the backhoe? It could be done to help protect the tractor. The subframe would be what the backhoe mounts to, to protect the lower 3 point arms from breaking off (weak points). I assume you have a Front End Loader on the L3200? The subframe ties FEL and the rear of the tractor together to give more support.

I did mount a heavy duty top plate to protect my top link when I was looking to mount my backhoe... I'll post photo of it (if I can find it) but basically it's a metal plate that was bent over the top cover of the transmission case, so not only do you have the back of the case bolted, the top is also giving support...

 

[old and tired]

This is basically the same tractor as ours... there is photos of homemade reinforced toplink plates... #92 and the factory one at #101

3-Point Hitch - Top link mount tore off back of differential case

Wondering if anyone has experienced (prefer first hand; happened to your tractor) a top link mount being torn off the case of your tractor (any model or make). I have a 2016 Kubota L3901 with approximately 84 hours and a 3 point (formerly) mounted WoodMaxx 7600 backhoe attached. I am now aware...

www.tractorbynet.com

Not trying to scare you just warning you... There are many that have had broke their tractor with a backhoe. Can it be used without, yes as long as you don't push it too hard.

 

[ovrszd]

No problem, what I don't know is how to set up your dump trailer since they (normally) use a single action cylinder (vs. everything that uses Double Action cylinder). Which, single action is power up and gravity pushes it down.

I don't know if you need a special valve body or if the one you have would work fine for that??? Does anyone know? I guess you could use a double acting (power moves in both directions) for your dump trailer....

My old flare box wagon with a dump cylinder is single action. To lower I detent the valve into float.

 

[old and tired]

...To lower I detent the valve into float.

MDAIII Avdo and Hamza; do you know what this means? Some valves, not all, have another position for detent. Normally, you push the valve handle forward, it extends the rod cylinder but if you push the valve handle more forward (sometimes beyond a ball lock) the valve goes into what's call Detent. It quickly allows the pressurize oil to return to the tank. Sometimes, this is also called fast dump or quick dump. See if your valve has this feature, it's nice to have.

Also, yet another warning... if you are pulling the dump trailer with the tractor, there is not any down pressure on the 3 point hitch (if you attach the trailer to the 3 point arms via a draw bar). If you load the rear of the trailer first, the front of the trailer could pop up. Likewise, when you dump all that weight will pop up the front of the trailer. Just chain the 3 point arms down to the draw bar.

 

[jwmorris]

I have a backhoe there is a two pipe lines on it one gets the hydraulic to it and second gets the fluid back to tractor ?
Im woried about second line that geting back fluid where do i connect it on high pressure return or on the low presure return ?

When everything is working properly think of your cylinder as a syringe with a seal keeping the chambers on either side apart. The non pressurized fluid end has to be open or you will be creating vacuum/pressure with it as hydraulics move the piston and it will not work properly. Like moving a syringe back and forth, then plug the end with your finger and it moves a little before beginning to resist.

You can leave the end in open air but from the above, it’s obviously drawing in air, dirt, grit into the cylinder and that’s not good for seals and when they don’t do their job and the cylinder starts leaking fluid past the piston, it’s going to squirt out the open end of the cylinder. A line, even a small plastic one on the “dead” end of the cylinder back to the reservoir but above any hydraulic fluid, will not only keep the air drawn into the “dead” end clean but when the cylinder piston seal fails some day, the fluid will just cycle through it vs make a mess.

 

[Hamza]

You ware right it is very problematic the balans of the weight and resistanc that suffer top link top connection i dont knkw the right word ...There are backhoes that have longer legs and positioned at the angle and they have much better balans than this one. It is very questionable how to move force from top link
I was thinking to fix it to tractors frame but the frame are also fixed on 4 screws...

But another problem we connected it today and it dont work... we were traying on lower RPM there are litle bit of movment on opening and closing bucket but nothing...

Did i miss something ??
Is it possible that there is no enough pressure? Oil? Oil flow ?

I dont know we will try tomorow again until we make it

I will put link of videos here to see it but i will put the video of my valve vith air and ballons so you can see the way it works

Quick Share

3 files (100.1 MB)

linksharing.samsungcloud.com

 

[old and tired]

The gear / manual transmission has a flow rate of 7.4 gallon per minute (HST is 6.2 GPM) which is slow but should have moved it. Looking at the video, when the backhoe valves are moved, tractor sounded like it was going into bypass mode...

You mentioned this above:

....but he was using different tractor i think he couldn't help as anyways... because Antonio Carraro has different hydraulic system.

Are they using a Closed System??? Like John Deere...

I looked here: Tractors antonio carraro

But no mention if it's open center or closed center... You could swap out the controls to match your tractor.

6 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE WVCB03 DA VALVE | New Arrivals | www.surpluscenter.com

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www.surpluscenter.com

 

[MDAIII Avdo]

Are they using a Closed System??? Like John Deere...

I looked here: Tractors antonio carraro

But no mention if it's open center or closed center... You could swap out the controls to match your tractor.

I honestly don't know... and with that carraro, the valves and exits were also made later, and we didn't ask because here (Bosnia), whoever we asked, mostly no one needs an external valve like a backhoe, and if it does have one, it's factory-made or it has already been imported from the EU like that. What bothers me now is that maybe we should have clicked on the return of high pressure because here it seems that the way to lose pressure towards the tank is open.

And I'm personally worried now about hanging on 3 points and suffering the heat and force on it... those pictures you posted before show very well what happens. All the time I think about how to solve the hanging differently

 

[MDAIII Avdo]

MDAIII Avdo and Hamza; do you know what this means? Some valves, not all, have another position for detent. Normally, you push the valve handle forward, it extends the rod cylinder but if you push the valve handle more forward (sometimes beyond a ball lock) the valve goes into what's call Detent. It quickly allows the pressurize oil to return to the tank. Sometimes, this is also called fast dump or quick dump. See if your valve has this feature, it's nice to have.

Also, yet another warning... if you are pulling the dump trailer with the tractor, there is not any down pressure on the 3 point hitch (if you attach the trailer to the 3 point arms via a draw bar). If you load the rear of the trailer first, the front of the trailer could pop up. Likewise, when you dump all that weight will pop up the front of the trailer. Just chain the 3 point arms down to the draw bar.

This 3rd video shows maybe it works on a single cylinder, the same return hose goes back through the low pressure inlet.
Tomorrow we will try this on the clip for the trailer and post pictures or a video. I understand this with a way of thinking, and honestly, this is the worst solution I've seen on this L3200...just as if the tractor was not intended for trailers at all (and maybe it wasn't). In other words, the hanging points are very bad, and if you go to 3 points, it's even worse.

Especially since the attachment of the "arm" of the tractor suffers all the force and at the same time there is no grease gun on this tractor..... Here is an example of what it looks like in the end. It took us 5 hours to take it down without causing major damage