Front mounted mower for a CUT - can it be done?

Mosey · Jun 20, 2003

What would it take to use a ZTR mower deck, or modify a 3pt type mower, and mount it on the front of a CUT and use the mid PTO to power it? I can mow pretty fast with my 6' rear finish mower. I can't turn around as fast as a ZTR, but I can make the turns pretty fast since I have a hydrostat drive. The blade tip speed of my Landpride FDR2572 3pt mower is 18,328 fpm, which is very close to the Landpride LPZ72 ZTR, which is 18,800 fpm. But, I have to drive over the grass first, so I can't go as fast as a ZTR. I've heard of front mounted snow blowers that use the mid PTO, so why couldn't a finish mower or brush mower (rotary cutter) be mounted on the front in a similar fashion? It seems to me that the rear of the mower could be supported by the front tires of the CUT and the front of it could ride on caster wheels.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 20, 2003

Mount a hydraulic motor on the deck and run it off of the tractor's hydraulics or a hydraulic pump on the PTO--kinda like a Power Trac without the articulation and hydraulic drive.

SnowRidge

markie61 · Jun 20, 2003

I know I saw somewhere a mower that fit on the front of a skidsteer and had a hydraulic PTO. I also saw somewhere just the quick attach 3ph adapter for skidsteers. You could mount any 3ph attachment on your loader. Now if someone could pipe up as to where to get power....

I've had similar thoughts as wet as it's been. With the RFM, the tires mat down the grass before the mover gets to it.

Mark

I

larso1 · Jun 20, 2003

It can be done, and is in fact offered by some of the CUT factories in Europe, etc. See the following link:

http://www.iseki.co.jp/english/products/prod-05.html

I've been thinking about this very same thing for a while. I have a front mount PTO for my Iseki TS1610F and it should be adaptable to most any of the mower decks with gear boxes, with a rear facing shaft connection. I see many of these decks for sale on e-bay, with casters all around which would probably be required. Lifting arms extending to the rear arms of the tractor, pivoting at the center of the tractor off the frame, could be worked out to lift the deck...or a separate actuator I suppose.

Bill in CO

Mosey · Jun 21, 2003

"It can be done, and is in fact offered by some of the CUT factories in Europe, etc. See the following link:
Bill in CO"

Thanks for the link Bill. That's exactly what I was thinking of! Where did you buy your Iseki? I've never heard of them before, but am definitley interested in learning more. Where are they made? I didn't see a dealer locator link on their web site. What is "PS" (is it the same as HP)?

MossRoad · Jun 21, 2003

You could possibly convert a 3pt mower to a front mount. Get a hydraulic to PTO converter, that adapts the PTO shaft of the mower to a hydraulic motor. Then power it from your tractor's hydraulics, if they are powerful enough. If they aren't, then get a PTO hydraulic pump to run it.

Or you could just get a Power Trac and be done with it /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Everything is out front where it is easier to see and control.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 22, 2003

( You could possibly convert a 3pt mower to a front mount. Get a hydraulic to PTO converter, that adapts the PTO shaft of the mower to a hydraulic motor. Then power it from your tractor's hydraulics, if they are powerful enough. If they aren't, then get a PTO hydraulic pump to run it.

Or you could just get a Power Trac and be done with it Everything is out front where it is easier to see and control. )

Hey. that's almost exactly what I said. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SnowRidge

MossRoad · Jun 22, 2003

Hey. that's almost exactly what I said. 

Whoops! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I replied before reading the entire thread. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Anyway, I concur with your advice /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mosey · Jun 23, 2003

MossRoad - "Or you could just get a Power Trac and be done with it"

I've put a lot of thought into a Power-Trac ever sense I read the post Compact Tractors are Designed All Wrong. At the time I stated "I just looked at the Power Trac web site and there are a lot of things I like about it, but I don't see it replacing my Boomer. Some implements work better on the back such as a moldboard plow or tiller or you would be driving on the plowed or tilled ground. Other implements will work well in the front at times, but will be better in the back at other times, such as a landscape rake when making the final pass before seeding grass or you would compact the soil after raking it. So, the ideal tractor would have to be bi-directional, like the New Holland TV140 discussed earlier. The small tires on the Power Trac and the low profile are great for mowing on slopes, but the lack of ground clearance would cause problems. I would bottom out in several areas. Also, the small diameter tires will not provide as much traction as large diameter tires."

So, I would still need a tractor and I can't afford both a Power Trac and a tractor (the ideal situation would be to have a good ZTR and a tractor, but I can't afford both of those either). I need to be able to plow, till, mow yard, mow brush and small trees, load heavy stuff into/remove heavy stuff from a pickup, landscape, push/remove snow, and pull/drag heavy stuff.

I can see where a Power Trac would be real nice in a lot of situations. The Power Trac would handle the mowing and a lot of the landscaping and snow removal. But, the small tires and lack of ground clearance would be a problem for some of the uneven terrain I get into. Those small tires would be a rough ride for me too, since my "yard" and fields are not all that smooth. I don't see how the Power Trac is going to work well for tilling, since the tiller needs to be on the back. Also, a tractor is much better for plowing, loading heavy stuff into/removing heavy stuff from a pickup using the FEL, and the grunt work of pulling/dragging heavy stuff. Also, I don't see any offset mowers for the Power Trac. I have a ditch and few other areas that I use my sickle bar mower to mow, or else I have to do it the hard way with a string trimmer.

Having to go to Virginia to buy one and only getting a 1 year parts only warranty is certainly a couple of strong deterrents!

I admit I may be just trying to do too much with a single machine. In retrospect, I probably should have just bought a good ZTR for the mowing and then an old used tractor for the heavy stuff, but I was trying to avoid buying anything used because I wanted something I could just put to work and not have to work on.

hazmat · Jun 23, 2003

Mosey,

There is at least one company that builds front mounted three point hitches for tractors. They are on the web somewhere - couldn't find them on google in 5 minutes though. Can't remember if a PTO was included, but you could rig something up off the Mid PTO (with gear reduction of course).

Question is, how much are you willing to pay to cut the grass faster? Off the top of my head, the front mount three point + PTO is gotta be $1,000 +. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Fun science project anyway.

larso1 · Jun 23, 2003

Danny,
My Iseki is a 19-HP grey-market tractor, imported from Japan in used condition. Iseki has made smaller tractors for Bolens, White, Massey and Agco, much like Yanmar makes smaller tractors for John Deere. I picked up a front mount PTO designed for a Bolens (Iseki) tractor of the same model, driven off the crank shaft via a splined shaft. I have also thought of driving a mower deck with a hydraulic motor, but I have reservations about maintaining constant cutting blade speed, and heat build-up in the fluid. These may not be an issue, but something to think about. Someone with more operating experience in hydraulic driven motors can give you a better idea.

Bill iin CO

Mosey · Jun 23, 2003

hazmat - "Question is, how much are you willing to pay to cut the grass faster? Off the top of my head, the front mount three point + PTO is gotta be $1,000 +."

I'll have to ponder that question! If I could get it to work with both the finish mower and the brush mower for close to $1000, then I'm thinking it would be worth it in the long run. I have an orchard with apple, cherry, etc trees that have low hanging branches. I back up to them so the rear mower goes under them to mow around them. It would be easier on my neck if the mower was out front. Sometimes I use my sickle mower for that, but I've found that it takes just as long to swap implements as it does to just mow it with the rear mower. The other thing to consider is that having the mower in the front is not just faster, it's also going to do a better job of mowing, since the tractor won't mash the grass down first. This has been a real problem for me with the brush mower when mowing 4'-5' grass. The tractor mashes it down so the mower leaves a row of uncut grass. I'll search around a bit for the front mount 3pt hitch. Thanks.

Mosey · Jun 23, 2003

Bill - "Iseki has made smaller tractors for Bolens, White, Massey and Agco"

Thanks. I'll check with some Bolens, White, Massey and Agco dealers and see if they have any info on Iseki.

markct · Jun 24, 2003

mosey, i agree with ya that the powertrack isnt much of a tractor, from what i have seen they are awfully light built, small tires, and like ya said the front mount is realy only good for a few aplications. they seem to be more of a glorified lawn mower than they are a tractor, i wish some of these guys who are always pushing them would realize that. they arnt a tractor, they are a lawn mower that can do a few "tractor jobs" also

MossRoad · Jun 24, 2003

the ideal tractor would have to be bi-directional, 

Yep, I couldn't agree more. Some things are just better out back, like plows and disks and maybe the tiller, if you have long areas to till...with the exception of flower beds, where I believe a front mounted tiller is better. And some things are better up front, like mowers and FELs, snow moving equipment, etc... there really is no one machine that does it all to perfection, but there are some that come close to doing most things well. As I've said before, if you need to do field plowing, discing, things like that, a conventional tractor would suit your needs better. But I really think the Power Trac design is superior to a conventional tractor of the same size for most things that I do, like mowing, snow clearing, FEL work, brush hogging and switching implements very often.

The Compact Tractrors Are Designed All Wrong thread is a great read.

 The small tires on the Power Trac and the low profile are great for mowing on slopes, but the lack of ground clearance would cause problems. I would bottom out in several areas. Also, the small diameter tires will not provide as much traction as large diameter tires

The full time 4WD seems to be pretty effective so far, even with turfs. And I haven't had any ground clearance problems yet. Of course, you have a much larger tractor than I, so it is hard to compare apples to apples. Maybe a comparison with A larger Power Trac would be better. Click on the picture of the tractor when you follow that link and also click on the attachments link there. They also make smaller and larger models.

 Also, I don't see any offset mowers for the Power Trac 

There is a gentlman on the Power Trac forum (read this thread) that tows two 57" Kunz self powered mowers and runs the 60" Power Trac mower on his PT425. That's around 13' of cut... not too bad. For steep banks, he drops one of the mowers and hangs 57" over the bank. Still not too bad.

 I admit I may be just trying to do too much with a single machine. In retrospect, I probably should have just bought a good ZTR for the mowing and then an old used tractor for the heavy stuff, but I was trying to avoid buying anything used because I wanted something I could just put to work and not have to work on.


That is the hard part... trying to find the single machine to do everything you want to do and sticking with a budget. Sometimes it can't be done. In my case, I'm completely satisfied with our purchase.

MossRoad · Jun 24, 2003

mosey, i agree with ya that the powertrack isnt much of a tractor, from what i have seen they are awfully light built, small tires, and like ya said the front mount is realy only good for a few aplications. they seem to be more of a glorified lawn mower than they are a tractor, i wish some of these guys who are always pushing them would realize that. they arnt a tractor, they are a lawn mower that can do a few "tractor jobs" also 

You're completely correct.

Anonymous Poster · Jun 26, 2003

We use a hydraulic run brushhog at work. 5 ft model, I believe a woods, but will check. We use a Case 480 E tractor(construction model) No rear pto.
That tractor is equipped with oil cooler from factory in front of radiator. I don't know if your CUT would have enough hyd flow to run this mower.

Charlie_Iliff · Jun 26, 2003

i agree with ya that the powertrack isnt much of a tractor, from what i have seen they are awfully light built, small tires, and like ya said the front mount is realy only good for a few aplications. they seem to be more of a glorified lawn mower than they are a tractor, i wish some of these guys who are always pushing them would realize that. they arnt a tractor, they are a lawn mower that can do a few "tractor jobs" also 
Interesting comments. I see in your profile a listing of a Ford 8000, which is a pretty long way from a compact tractor. If 9500 lb. is the lower limit for a real tractor, then there are very few under discussion on this board. To suggest that Power Tracs are lightly built, however, is merely to confirm that you've never seen one. But, my 45 hp 1845 is certainly a glorified lawnmower. It runs a 6 foot rough cut three spindle mower, and tows a 5 foot Acrease, so I cut heavy pasture growth at over 10 feet per pass, at higher speed over rough pastures than we can do with conventional tractors, of which we have four.
As for the other "tractor jobs", which you put in quotes, perhaps you should also add "skid steer jobs", "fork lift jobs", "backhoe jobs" and a few others that I'll no doubt think of presently.
Since I'm definitely one of those always pushing them, I can't agree with you more. Power Tracs are not tractors in the 1930's configuration so dear to us all -- they are much more flexible and capable than any tractor in their weight class on the market.
Your conclusions flow from what i have seen . Perhaps you might post again when you've actually seen a Power Trac, but in the meantime let me know how fast you can drill post holes with an 8000 Ford and 3 point auger (a "tractor job"?). My record is 78 in 80 minutes. And I can change from the auger to the mower in about a minute, including unhooking and hooking the hydraulics. Want to race? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Jun 26, 2003

Want to race? 

Hee Hee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LiveRoll · Mar 21, 2013

MK Martin in Ontario manufactures a front pto drive / three point hitch attachment for CUTs. It has a gear reduction from the hi speed mid mount pto to a 540 rpm, and the hydraulic 3 point would plug into existing loader hydraulics. It looks like a very slick unit. perhaps expensive but certainly opens up the usefullness of the tractor.
mkmartin.ca/products/front_mount.php

Cheers

Roger