Front snowplow bracket help

[Mrwurm]

"But being a mechanical engineer, half the fun of this project is designing it"

Yep, I had to design and build all the brackets for my setup. Took about two weeks and was alot of fun. I sold the tractor, maybe I'll do it again for my new tractor.

 

[htiek126]

At what height are the skids supposed to be set on a snow plow? Do they keep the blade slightly off the ground, or does the blade set on the ground with the shoes set to keep it from digging any deeper?

 

[Mrwurm]

Good question. I guess it would depend on what type of base you are plowing. Gravel, dirt, concrete, asphalt each have their own characteristics. I plow on concrete and use soft steel skid shoes that do not leave marks on the cement like the edge of the blade would. I always adjusted my blade edge to be about a 1/4 inch off the ground. The bad part is that the skid shoes only lasted about half a season of home use. Cost me $30 per set twice each season. I'm not familiar with how skid shoes work on dirt or gravel.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Shoes on concrete last forever if you run some Stoody hard Surface rod on them, and they don't leave marks on concrete.
As far as setting shoes up for gravel or stone, unless you have a good 4 to 6" of frost in the ground, set the shoes so the blade is a good inch above the paving. If the snow is wet, set the blade higher, or you'll get to rake all the stone back into the drive come spring.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I now understand completely. "But being a mechanical engineer, half the fun of this project is designing it; so I'm apt to go a little overboard Hazmat. "
As we both know MEs do not make mistakes, they merely have design changes. My current setup with the blade pinned to the bucket is revision 7.05 to the original design. Naturally, it's new & improved, and parts are no longer available for the original model.
I'm also contemplating version 8.4A, with side wings and internal braces. When 8.4A comes out, all parts for previous versions will be automaticly deleted from inventory and scrapped.

 

[beenthere]

I don't use skid shoes (for 35 years) on my gravel drive or the paved town road. I wait to plow the gravel when it is frozen (as it is now but no snow to speak of) and have no problem. The gravel (crushed limestone) is well packed (I make sure I don't disturb that packed gravel in the fall), and the few loose "marbles" get dusted off into the grass for spring cleaning. I also found out long ago that the grass grows through the gravel on the lawn easily, and hasn't been a major problem if I don't get it broomed back on the drive. I use the skid shoe brackets to put the casters in for moving the blade around the shop (shed) for storage and hook-up.

 

[hazmat]

I've had some more time to work on the design. I've got the lift part nailed, but the power angle is giving me a headache!

I found dimensions of chief brand cylinders on the web so I could model them up. To get 30 degrees of angle I need 8" of stroke, but the retracted length doesn't fit. If I go for 20 degrees I can use 6" stroke cylinders & they will fit.

Snowplow cylinders listed in the northern catalog have shorter retracted lengths & are probably the solution, but not enough data to model them, plus they require more elaborate bracketry to attach. Well, probably hold off on the angle for now, to save the money for xmas presents if nothing else.

I attached a pic

 

[beenthere]

What retracted length are you looking for? The snow plow rams are a bit shorter because they don't have the clevis ends (which the Prince have, I think). The clevis ears can be added to the framework however. From your pic, that looks possible (but looks are deceiving, I realize). The Surplus Center catalog has rams that are retracted 17 1/4" (2 x 10 x 2) for $49.95. Push is 7854#'s They also list a (1 1/2 x 10 x 1 1/2) with retracted length of 16 3/4 which are military surplus and said good for plow angle cylinders for $69.95. The 1" pin holes are bored in the end of the rod. Push is 4415 #'s.

Great graphics. I'd sure like to be able to do that. Guessing the cost of the software is out of my reach.
Are you knee deep in snow yet?

 

[hazmat]

Well I'll have to call Surplus center (I know i bookmarked their number from somebody's previous post here maybe it was you).

I can easily add a clevis where needed. The chief cylinders where 10.25" + stroke for retracted center to center, so an 8" was a whopping 18.25"

Romour has it that the pro E software cost about $30K per person. Not sure if it is really that much, but it is quite expensive. Just looked up one option "flexible design II total was $25K. We've got more of the modules.

They have a "light" version called prodesktop that is $1,500 <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ptc.com>Parametric Technologies</A>

I haven't ever shopped for home use software, but they did give us a student version for free at one of the training sessions. Needs a good amount of Horse power to run.

If you decide you want to buy one, I'd be happy to offer opinions on any affordable packages you come accross.

Only 1" so far, but still coming down. The storm passed south of us. My parents are near the cape and have 4" so far.

Due to the cold weather this week, the local ski mountain (next town over) is supposed to open this weekend. Usually they are happy if they get open for x-mas. Might have to take a day off from the home renovations to get some turns in.

 

[beenthere]

Surplus Center 1-402-474-4055 Lincoln, NE

I will just dream about the software. Enjoyed your renditions of your design very much.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hazmat, you might be able to shave some off the collapsed length of the cylinders by redrilling the pin holes.
Most plow cylinders have a couple inches of excess length in both ends.
Of course, you could also rotate the quadrant 90 degrees, and add some length to the A frame arms too.

 

[gbirky]

hazmat,
I noticed that you have two cylinders for angle. Only one is required if you have "double action". I doesn't take much force to angle the blade. That should decrease your cost for angle power by 50%.

Greg

 

[hazmat]

<font color=blue>That should decrease your cost for angle power by 50%.</font color=blue>

You'd think so, But the double acting cylinders I've priced so far are more than 2X a similar size single acting. I've requested a catalog from Surplus Center, maybe they are cheaper than Northerntool, agri-supply or Bailynet.

 

[beenthere]

Seems like all snow plows have two cylinders for angling the blade. Do you have one that has only one double acting cylinder? I would guess that for as many years snow plows have been around, that the best way is two cylinders. I paid Western about $70 each for the 3 of mine, and I expect they can be picked up somewhere for 10 - 15% less than that.

There is a pretty good load on the cylinders, which is probably why the cyl. rods are 2". When pushing snow with the forward edge of the angled blade, there can be a lot of pressure against that angling cylinder extended on that side. Again, I expect that the design is pretty well tested out over time. Then again, there are improvements made in their design all the time.

I like the 6-ways, with scoop, v-plow, right and left angle, and even the ones that roll forward about 180 degrees to catch snow and drag it back, like from in front of a garage door. Will just dream and wish for some snow so I can have a good excuse to put my plow on and plow some snow.

 

[hazmat]

I think some factory tractor blades (deere, new holland etc.) have a double acting cylinder. I'm pretty sure that the 54" Deere blade for garden tractors is setup that way.

Never seen it on a truck plow.

 

[htiek126]

With the double acting, the push is stronger than the pull (based on the surface area within the cylinder and minus the area of the cylinder rod on the pull stroke). So you just need to take that into account by increasing the diameter of the cylinder and/or getting a longer stroke cylinder and attaching it further from the center (moment arm).

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Regardless of single or double acting, DON'T forget the pop valve, or you'll be busting hoses and cylinders.

 

[hazmat]

I've got some progress to report:

I ordered up the steel & will pick it up this afternoon. My buddy with the welder is back in town. Hopefully, I can get the pieces cut to length & ready to go, so we can weld it up next week.

The wife is going to get me the hydraulic cylinders for my birthday/w3tcompact/icons/love.gif

The plow doesn't have a spring trip, but I'm going to get a strip of rubber for the cutting edge, hopefully that will lessen the impacts a bit. If not, maybe the next "revision" will be to add the spring trip.

 

[gbirky]

I've been out of the loop for a while, and just saw the post on double acting cylinder costs being more than 2x singles. That's really strange. Guys I have talked to say that you can make a double out of a single just by drilling, tapping, and putting a fitting on the non-powered end.

As for the comment on forces on these cylinders - I understand that they are great while plowing, but if you angle while the blade is up and not plowing, the force is very small. That of course only means that you don't need much hydraulic pressure to move the blade. You still have that large force while plowing.

 

[hazmat]

<font color=blue>I've been out of the loop for a while, and just saw the post on double acting cylinder costs being more than 2x singles. That's really strange. Guys I have talked to say that you can make a double out of a single just by drilling, tapping, and putting a fitting on the non-powered end.</font color=blue>

Well I must have been having an extended brain fart when I was reading the catalog. Looking at it again right now, I found that I was comparing two different double acting cylinders. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gifI'm getting ready to place my order today, might require some more figuring on my part.