Front wheels locked

[sodamo]

CK30HST, 487 hours. Helping dig our pool today - I get to move the spoils. Lots of repetitive forward and reverse over short distance to load and empty bucket. While reversing, my front wheels just locked up. Was in 4wd at the time. Shifted out of 4wd, but to no avail other than I can't seem to shift back in. Front wheels don't want to spin either direction.
HELP - any thoughts, suggestions what to look for? This happened just before quitting time, so I'll get a better look tomorrow.

David

 

[JoelD]

Hmmm, for both wheels to not want to spin sounds like something went wrong in the differential.

I'm thinking you're gonna need to pull the diff apart.

I don't have my manual with me, but would expect one wheel or the other to spin if anything other than the diff it's self.

Joel

 

[Highbeam]

Use the loader to lift the front end up off the ground and try and move the wheels around. You have no breaks up there to go foul. All the fun bevel gear stuff in the outboard housings could fail but would leave only one wheel locked up since you have an open differential. Your problem would be in the diff itself or in the driveline/tranny. When in 2wd you can reach into the little hole under the tractor and actually rotate the driveline.

Did you have oil in it? I'm sure you did.

 

[wallace]

I have seen this 3 times already this year...
Customers have not been putting enough gear oil in the front axel and when run a distance it heats up the front diff which is not getting the lube because of the fluid level being to low.
It takes out the pinion if you remove one of the hubs you can look in and see if the center section gears are blued.

I hope this is not your case but it sure does sound like what the other tractors did when they broke.

 

[sodamo]

Thanks so far
With the front lifted via the bucket, both wheels rotate freely (opposite directions).
The 4wd Lever is in the UP (disengaged) position and will not go DOWN (engaged) position. I was in 4wd when the problem occurred and disengaged to see if it made a difference.

To be continued....

David

 

[JoelD]

Rick has mentioned this in the past when I was doing my maintenance. I think the cause is, the oil will fill to the sight glass prior to running down into the low spots on the final drives. You need to keep filling until you've measured in the measured amount as it will continually run into the low spots.

I almost made the mistake until I took a hard look and kept adding the oil until I had put in the recommended amount.

Its a result of the shape of the castings, not that the castings are faulty, just that the oil takes time to fill all the nooks and crannies.

As Rick stated, I hope you've not toasted the diff.

Good luck,
Joel

 

[TBDonnelly]

The CK30 has a sight glass in the front axle to check the oil level.

I have this sudden urge to go out and double check the oil level in my front axle.

Don

 

[BJN644]

I have seen this 3 times already this year...
Customers have not been putting enough gear oil in the front axel and when run a distance it heats up the front diff which is not getting the lube because of the fluid level being to low.
It takes out the pinion if you remove one of the hubs you can look in and see if the center section gears are blued.

I hope this is not your case but it sure does sound like what the other tractors did when they broke.

Glad I read this before I do my 50 hr service.

Is gear oil the recommended lube? the manual says gear lube or hydraulic fluid.

 

[contdevelop]

Just to clarify, the front axle is supposd to hold 5 quarts of 90W? and does someone have a picture of this "sight glass?" I just did the 50 hour service on my Ck30hst about 2 weeks ago and the front axle took all 5 quarts with no problem, however I previously read a post from someone who said it takes a while for the frant axle to fill up and people were not putting enough oil in it. My dealer and owners manual both said it takes 5 quarts, but after adding the 5 I wasnt sure if I should add more.

 

[IXLR8]

Sight glass on mine is on the rear left side of the axle. I have heard that not all machines have one.

 

[HODAK]

If anything, you may have over filled. The sight glass is on the left side of the axle, (driver's side?) and faces the rear of the tractor. It is shown in the manual also, I believe. This has been discussed on here previously - always re-check after changing. Some guys say to lift the front end and move the axle around. I just drove around for a little and then re-check a few times after each use. It will settle out.

 

[IslandTractor]

I saw one of the fried pinion gears in Rick's shop this summer. However, as I recall he mentioned that this type of failure is much more likely to occur when traveling with the tractor along a road etc but less likely when just working as Sodamo described. Hard for there to be a lot of heat build up in those gears (even if the oil level was a bit low) when just doing loader work.

 

[Sandlot]

The site glass on my ck20 appeared to have oil in it when I brought it home from the dealer, but when I got curious and pulled it, no oil came out. I had to add a quart. It only had 15 hours on it. When I did the 50 hr service, it took several top offs to get it to stay in the sight glass. The bad thing is, the design of the sight glass makes it appear that there is oil there once the level comes up into it once. After the level has settled below the glass, it still looks like the oil is just at the bottom of the glass. This, according to the manual is the correct level. I am now in the habit of overfilling the unit to keep the level midway in the glass cold and level.

 

[Highbeam]

I too aim for halfway into the sight glass. I believe that there is a red dot in the center which would indicate the fill line.

Okay, so the wheels spin in opposite directions. This is good, your hubs are fine and the center gears inside the diff are fine. Now you are looking at the ring and pinion, or possibly those supporting bearings. I would set one wheel on the ground to lock it and try and rock the other wheel back and forth in an attempt to free up the differential housing which is now locked in position by some mechanical issue like perhaps a chunk of gear tooth in the gears. If you can dislodge the "wrench in your gears" then the chunk might fall into the axle and bind up in a hub so be careful, but at least you can load it onto a trailer.

This might be a time for one of those car dolleys that you use on the front of cars to tow them around with a truck. Your rear end should move freely if in 2wd.

 

[ERE]

Yet again, the value of this web site is demonstrated. I got nervous when I read about the stealth behavior of the sight glass and went out to check mine. Sure enough, no oil showing. I added almost a quart and it was in the center of the sight glass - came back a half hour later and it had disappeared. All told I put in about 1 3/4 quarts - not good, but better than finding out by having my front diffy freeze. I did my 50 hour maintenance about 160 hours ago so I suspect that I did some damage, but hopefully not too much.

 

[intel]

be careful forcing the tractor to free up you could brake some gears or a shaft. it does sound like the front end is free and ok, maybe jack the back end up and rotate the rear tires by hand.

 

[mrutkaus]

I too have filled mine CK30HSt and come back and seen it low and filled it again.

Ps FWIIW, I use a lot of moly in everything including the gear oil.

Mike

 

[sodamo]

Thanks Guys

Raining steadily here and I'll wait for it to dry out before venturing further. Yea, I know, pretty wimpy of me

As for the back wheels - they do engage. I was able to move tractor both forward and reverse, although the front wheels just skidded along. Had to move it as I was in the way of my backhoe guy and his 426. He did dig me a right pretty hole, but sure would be easier if I can get my Kioti working to place the base course in those tight places.

David

 

[Steve_Miller]

Thanks Guys

Raining steadily here and I'll wait for it to dry out before venturing further. Yea, I know, pretty wimpy of me

As for the back wheels - they do engage. I was able to move tractor both forward and reverse, although the front wheels just skidded along. Had to move it as I was in the way of my backhoe guy and his 426. He did dig me a right pretty hole, but sure would be easier if I can get my Kioti working to place the base course in those tight places.

David

Is there a chance the 4WD lever was only partially engage when this happened? Maybe something in the transmission had locked up or (hopefully) not broken. If the front wheels were not fully engaged for an extended period of time, a tooth may have broken on one of the gears and lodged somewhere locking up the front end. Just surmising. As far as moving the tractor, maybe just lift the front end off the ground with the FEL and move it that way, at least you shouldn't strain anything else.


Steve

 

[Steve_Miller]

Any news yet David? If so, I hope its good.

Steve