frost footings and drainage

[5030tinkerer]

I am building a home with a walkout basement. ICF supplier says that only the non-frost footings need a drainage solution (whether it be form-a-drain or plain ol' drainage tile). Any comments on this? It seems logical that you shouldn't be worried about water in your basement from any water collecting well below the basement floor (at the 42" frost footing depth), but it also seems that the frost footing and wall would last a bunch longer if it wasn't subjected to hydraulic pressure on either side of it. Any thoughts? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[5030tinkerer]

I am building a home with a walkout basement. ICF supplier says that only the non-frost footings need a drainage solution (whether it be form-a-drain or plain ol' drainage tile). Any comments on this? It seems logical that you shouldn't be worried about water in your basement from any water collecting well below the basement floor (at the 42" frost footing depth), but it also seems that the frost footing and wall would last a bunch longer if it wasn't subjected to hydraulic pressure on either side of it. Any thoughts? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[beenthere]

What is ICF /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

If I had your intuition, I'd put the drains in where you think they should be (and I agree on their placement, especially from my experience 50 years ago in IA where there was clay soil and plenty of water even on top of the hills /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

 

[beenthere]

What is ICF /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

If I had your intuition, I'd put the drains in where you think they should be (and I agree on their placement, especially from my experience 50 years ago in IA where there was clay soil and plenty of water even on top of the hills /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

 

[5030tinkerer]

ICF's are insulated concrete forms (I am using IntegraSpec's product). I am tempted to add the 4" drain tile on the inside and outside of the frost footing (connecting the two sides) if nothing else to be able to connect it to a drain to daylight (about a 200' trench to accomplish this...) later if someone thought I needed it. Once the basement slab is poured, there would be no easy way to get the tile on the inside of the frost footing. A piece of me agrees with the ICF supplier (who is also a builder), but another piece of me questions it.

 

[5030tinkerer]

ICF's are insulated concrete forms (I am using IntegraSpec's product). I am tempted to add the 4" drain tile on the inside and outside of the frost footing (connecting the two sides) if nothing else to be able to connect it to a drain to daylight (about a 200' trench to accomplish this...) later if someone thought I needed it. Once the basement slab is poured, there would be no easy way to get the tile on the inside of the frost footing. A piece of me agrees with the ICF supplier (who is also a builder), but another piece of me questions it.

 

[Adron]

Just (almost) completed a large partial basement on a home addition. Used ICF and love it. Since I could not run the drain to daylight, because there was not enough fall, I had to use a sump pump. With all the rain we have had the last couple of weeks, the sump has had to kick in several times. (Note:landscaping isn't finished so the drain around the house does not slope correctly yet.) None the less, I'm sure all that hydraulic pressure would not have been good on the foundation and walls.

It is not that expensive to add drains now. I would surely play it safe and add them during construction.

 

[Adron]

Just (almost) completed a large partial basement on a home addition. Used ICF and love it. Since I could not run the drain to daylight, because there was not enough fall, I had to use a sump pump. With all the rain we have had the last couple of weeks, the sump has had to kick in several times. (Note:landscaping isn't finished so the drain around the house does not slope correctly yet.) None the less, I'm sure all that hydraulic pressure would not have been good on the foundation and walls.

It is not that expensive to add drains now. I would surely play it safe and add them during construction.

 

[5030tinkerer]

Clarification: I have drainage around my foundation. The question is whether I need drainage around my frost footings that set 44" below my regular non-frost footings.

 

[5030tinkerer]

Clarification: I have drainage around my foundation. The question is whether I need drainage around my frost footings that set 44" below my regular non-frost footings.

 

[bebster]

I would definitely put it on the outside because it's inexpensive to do so and you only get one chance to do it.

But if you put it on the inside, it should be higher so that you don't get water collecting in the outside drain and then flowing to the inside. Even if you can't daylight the drains, you could run them to a drywell far enough away.

I'd also waterproof the outside of the wall. Several options are available for that. My wife and I did our barn ourselves.

 

[bebster]

I would definitely put it on the outside because it's inexpensive to do so and you only get one chance to do it.

But if you put it on the inside, it should be higher so that you don't get water collecting in the outside drain and then flowing to the inside. Even if you can't daylight the drains, you could run them to a drywell far enough away.

I'd also waterproof the outside of the wall. Several options are available for that. My wife and I did our barn ourselves.

 

[5030tinkerer]

I hadn't thought of waterproofing the walls. Can you provide more information on why that should matter if what we are talking about is a wall below grade with living area only above it? Is it the risk of water getting into the wall, freezing, and then cracking the wall?

 

[5030tinkerer]

I hadn't thought of waterproofing the walls. Can you provide more information on why that should matter if what we are talking about is a wall below grade with living area only above it? Is it the risk of water getting into the wall, freezing, and then cracking the wall?

 

[5030tinkerer]

Any thoughts on the frost wall waterproofing? I'll be placing the drain line tomorrow and would like to backfill, but not if I should be waterproofing first.

 

[5030tinkerer]

Any thoughts on the frost wall waterproofing? I'll be placing the drain line tomorrow and would like to backfill, but not if I should be waterproofing first.

 

[midlf]

Wouldn't the ICF wall act as a waterproofing?

 

[midlf]

Wouldn't the ICF wall act as a waterproofing?

 

[5030tinkerer]

Sadly, no. The ICF walls are just blocks that fit together - there are cracks between the blocks.

 

[5030tinkerer]

Sadly, no. The ICF walls are just blocks that fit together - there are cracks between the blocks.