My hunting club is planning to buy CUT in the 30 horse range to use for bush-hogging, discing and cutting food plots. I don't think we'll have the scratch for the purchase in time for next planting season-May or June in northeast Pa. I hate to lose another season without establishing food plots. I have heard about frost seeding clovers, but not sure how or when to do it. Any suggestions would be appreciated. We've already limed the plots this fall so pH should be OK.
FROST SEEDING FOOD PLOTS
- Thread starter flINTLOCK
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
My experience is that the seed will remain dormant until conditons are right for it to sprout unless you cook them real bad in summer. Winter temps will just extend the dormancy of the seeds.
If you spread seed now, I'd suspect nothing will happen until fall anyway. But I've never been to PA, so I'm just guessing on how cold it is there right now.
Eddie
If you spread seed now, I'd suspect nothing will happen until fall anyway. But I've never been to PA, so I'm just guessing on how cold it is there right now.
Eddie
3RRL
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I bought a sampler from the Whitetail Institute Of North America. Most planting seasons are either spring or fall and they give you recommendations for weather, soil, everything. You may be able to find more specific information by calling or emailing them.
Here is a LINK to it.
Here is a LINK to it.
3RRL
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This attachment shows one of the areas I selected for a small plot near our campsite. It was taken around Thanksgiving 3 weeks ago. This plot is part of a meadow that has a game trail running through it.
I'll check the progress next visit up. We've had plenty of rain since then so I've been lucky with watering so far. I've got plans to do 2 more plots in the spring.
Any suggestions from you guys?
I'll check the progress next visit up. We've had plenty of rain since then so I've been lucky with watering so far. I've got plans to do 2 more plots in the spring.
Any suggestions from you guys?
Attachments
unioncreek
Member
I frost seed clover every spring in my pastures and the best time to do it is while the ground is still freezing and thawing in the spring. You want very little snow cover, so that see doesn't wash away if you get a sudden melt. I Washington state I do mine in late February or March. It works very good with clovers and other small round seeded crops. Grasses don't do as well.
Bobg
Bobg
Thanks for the info. I've heard that you can frost seed clovers very well, but probably need to up the amount of seed spread to make up for the reduced germination rate. I also read somewhere that brassicas can be effectively frost seeded. I guess you can apply fertilizer later in the spring, closer to germination time so it doesn't wash away before germination. Same thing with additional lime if needed.
andrewj
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My experience is that the seed will remain dormant until conditons are right for it to sprout unless you cook them real bad in summer. Winter temps will just extend the dormancy of the seeds.
If you spread seed now, I'd suspect nothing will happen until fall anyway. But I've never been to PA, so I'm just guessing on how cold it is there right now.
Eddie
)</font>
I am just learning, but i sewed about 2 acres of wheat a month ago, and it is up 4 inches. I sewed 8 pounds of clover, it is up. also, 50 pounds of perrenial fescue and it is slow starting. I know nothing of the weather where both you guys are, but here in SC you can only plant fescue/wheat in the late fall or winter, if you try in the summer it will wilt. they don't plant clover in the summer around here.
If you spread seed now, I'd suspect nothing will happen until fall anyway. But I've never been to PA, so I'm just guessing on how cold it is there right now.
Eddie
)</font>
I am just learning, but i sewed about 2 acres of wheat a month ago, and it is up 4 inches. I sewed 8 pounds of clover, it is up. also, 50 pounds of perrenial fescue and it is slow starting. I know nothing of the weather where both you guys are, but here in SC you can only plant fescue/wheat in the late fall or winter, if you try in the summer it will wilt. they don't plant clover in the summer around here.
Captinjack
Silver Member
I have have planted Whitetail Institute Imperial Whitetail Clover in several small food plots for the last 5 years with great success in attracting Deer, turkeys, rabbits, and of course groundhogs.
The prime problem that I and others have had is with weeds and grass choking out the clover. I recommend that you delay planting the clover until mid August and spend the spring and summer getting the existing plot ready by doing soil samples and multiple tillings or chemical weed control so that when your plot geminates, it will come on strong without the weed problem. The late summer early fall is the best time to plant clover as the weeds are about done growing and the clover will be just starting. This will give the clover a chance to spread and overtake the existing vegatation.
Each time you till, you will expose new weed seeds to growth within about a month after tilling. Till again after killing with Round-up and keep doing it until your soil is virtually free of weeds and grass. Even so you will still have weeds and grass grow in the spring and then you will have to treat each with chemicals that selectively kill gass and then weeds without harm to the clover. This has to be done when the grass and weeds are less that 4 " high.
Clover planted in the late summer will feed deer and be an attractant during the fall hunting season.
If you don't have your tractor by spring, use a 4 wheeler and a small disc to do the tilling.
Remember, soil preparation is of the utmost importance. It will be much better to delay planting clover until the conditions are just right. My first clover plot was planted in less than ideal soil conditions and it was a struggle to keep it going 3 yrs. with the weeds.
I have since purchased a tractor and a tiller and for the first time, I will have the capability of preparing the soil as good as 3RRL's plot.
Overseeding works where you have already prepared the soil and the soil is free of vegatation. It also works to fill in spots that could use help in an already existing plot of clover.
I also planted some turnips in the late summer mixed in with the clover and the deer loved them late into the season. Turnips are really cheap, but be carefull to broadcast them very sparingly as the will grow up too close together and not amount to much.
You may also consider planting annuals for the first few years until you have the ground fully under control. I expect that a clover plot that is free of weeds and grass would easily last for 5 yrs. without doing much other than maybe a 6" mowing and annual fertilizer.
Hope this helps. We killed 28 deer on my 75 acres this year! Do the food plots work? You bet they do. They are worth every cent and drop of sweat that they cost.
The prime problem that I and others have had is with weeds and grass choking out the clover. I recommend that you delay planting the clover until mid August and spend the spring and summer getting the existing plot ready by doing soil samples and multiple tillings or chemical weed control so that when your plot geminates, it will come on strong without the weed problem. The late summer early fall is the best time to plant clover as the weeds are about done growing and the clover will be just starting. This will give the clover a chance to spread and overtake the existing vegatation.
Each time you till, you will expose new weed seeds to growth within about a month after tilling. Till again after killing with Round-up and keep doing it until your soil is virtually free of weeds and grass. Even so you will still have weeds and grass grow in the spring and then you will have to treat each with chemicals that selectively kill gass and then weeds without harm to the clover. This has to be done when the grass and weeds are less that 4 " high.
Clover planted in the late summer will feed deer and be an attractant during the fall hunting season.
If you don't have your tractor by spring, use a 4 wheeler and a small disc to do the tilling.
Remember, soil preparation is of the utmost importance. It will be much better to delay planting clover until the conditions are just right. My first clover plot was planted in less than ideal soil conditions and it was a struggle to keep it going 3 yrs. with the weeds.
I have since purchased a tractor and a tiller and for the first time, I will have the capability of preparing the soil as good as 3RRL's plot.
Overseeding works where you have already prepared the soil and the soil is free of vegatation. It also works to fill in spots that could use help in an already existing plot of clover.
I also planted some turnips in the late summer mixed in with the clover and the deer loved them late into the season. Turnips are really cheap, but be carefull to broadcast them very sparingly as the will grow up too close together and not amount to much.
You may also consider planting annuals for the first few years until you have the ground fully under control. I expect that a clover plot that is free of weeds and grass would easily last for 5 yrs. without doing much other than maybe a 6" mowing and annual fertilizer.
Hope this helps. We killed 28 deer on my 75 acres this year! Do the food plots work? You bet they do. They are worth every cent and drop of sweat that they cost.
3RRL
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Captainjack,
Thanks for the informative post. My plot is not doing as well as I hoped. After preparing it and seeding with the same Whitetail Institute Clover as you, I still see natural grasses coming up and very little clover. My weather here in CA is not freezing cold but once in a blue moon so I thought I could start seeding in January. I guess that's a mistake.
Would you recommend overseeding now to help it along? Or do you think I should plow it up again? Then seed? I hate to wait for August to establsh the clover unless it's absolutly madatory. I also like the turnips you planted. Could I plant some now as well? Any suggestions would help.
Thanks,
Thanks for the informative post. My plot is not doing as well as I hoped. After preparing it and seeding with the same Whitetail Institute Clover as you, I still see natural grasses coming up and very little clover. My weather here in CA is not freezing cold but once in a blue moon so I thought I could start seeding in January. I guess that's a mistake.
Would you recommend overseeding now to help it along? Or do you think I should plow it up again? Then seed? I hate to wait for August to establsh the clover unless it's absolutly madatory. I also like the turnips you planted. Could I plant some now as well? Any suggestions would help.
Thanks,
Captinjack
Silver Member
3RRL
I don't know what your ground temperatures are running in your area so I can't say whether you can frost seed now or not. I've been told that you can frost seed on top of the last snow and that when the ground warms, it will germinate and there you go so I would frost seed when air temperatures still are hitting freezing.
If you have problems with grass now you have 2 choices. A. -wait till the grass starts growing well and treat it with a clover compatible liquid that Whitetail Institutes sell (slay or arrest I don't remember which is for grass and the other is for broadleaf weeds) or B. - Till everything by discing or rototilling repeatedly until the grass and the buried seeds are killed off.
I'd do the frost seeding now and see what happens. As I recall, your plot is pretty small so you don't have a lot at risk so give it a shot. Worst thing that could happen is you have to wait until late summer/early fall and do it again.
I didn't time the planting of my turnips properly and they matured and rotted before late fall/early winter when the deer would have liked to eat them. Here in PA, we'd plant turnips in the spring if you're going to eat them and in the late summer if you are going to let them go to the deer.
I'm planning my food plots now as I'll be visiting my KM 554 in the next 2 weeks. I haven't hooked up my rotovator to this tractor and will do a trial fit-up then. ****....if the ground conditions are ok, I might even do some tilling, but that is very unlikely. Two years ago, we had 27" of snow at this time. If that's the case, I'll use the tractor to dig our way out.
A quick tractor question as you have the same model as I. Do you have a compression release? If I do, there is no mention in the manuals and I don't see any switches or actuators.
Good luck with the plot.
I don't know what your ground temperatures are running in your area so I can't say whether you can frost seed now or not. I've been told that you can frost seed on top of the last snow and that when the ground warms, it will germinate and there you go so I would frost seed when air temperatures still are hitting freezing.
If you have problems with grass now you have 2 choices. A. -wait till the grass starts growing well and treat it with a clover compatible liquid that Whitetail Institutes sell (slay or arrest I don't remember which is for grass and the other is for broadleaf weeds) or B. - Till everything by discing or rototilling repeatedly until the grass and the buried seeds are killed off.
I'd do the frost seeding now and see what happens. As I recall, your plot is pretty small so you don't have a lot at risk so give it a shot. Worst thing that could happen is you have to wait until late summer/early fall and do it again.
I didn't time the planting of my turnips properly and they matured and rotted before late fall/early winter when the deer would have liked to eat them. Here in PA, we'd plant turnips in the spring if you're going to eat them and in the late summer if you are going to let them go to the deer.
I'm planning my food plots now as I'll be visiting my KM 554 in the next 2 weeks. I haven't hooked up my rotovator to this tractor and will do a trial fit-up then. ****....if the ground conditions are ok, I might even do some tilling, but that is very unlikely. Two years ago, we had 27" of snow at this time. If that's the case, I'll use the tractor to dig our way out.
A quick tractor question as you have the same model as I. Do you have a compression release? If I do, there is no mention in the manuals and I don't see any switches or actuators.
Good luck with the plot.
3RRL
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Captinjack,
Thanks for the reply. I'll try seeding again this weekend. The reason for the turnips...I wanted to give the deer an added incentive to use the plot during Spring and Summer. Get them used to being there for food so they'll show up in Fall season.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Do you have a compression release? If I do, there is no mention in the manuals and I don't see any switches or actuators.)</font>
I thought I remebered reading something about the compression relief? Might have been somewhere else? However, I found nothing on the tractor that resembles one.... so I presume not. Have never had the need arise to use it even if there is one. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You'll have fun up at your property with that tractor!
Thanks for the reply. I'll try seeding again this weekend. The reason for the turnips...I wanted to give the deer an added incentive to use the plot during Spring and Summer. Get them used to being there for food so they'll show up in Fall season.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Do you have a compression release? If I do, there is no mention in the manuals and I don't see any switches or actuators.)</font>
I thought I remebered reading something about the compression relief? Might have been somewhere else? However, I found nothing on the tractor that resembles one.... so I presume not. Have never had the need arise to use it even if there is one. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You'll have fun up at your property with that tractor!
Scozz
Silver Member
CaptainJack I have the KM454 ... almost the same as your tractor. It is about 1.5 years old now. My model has compression release. Sitting in the seat (on mine) below the dash (between foot and knee level) there are two black "pull knobs" the one in the right is the fuell kill (to stop the engine from running) and the one on the left is the compression release. .... Scozz
3RRL
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Scozz,
That's right. I have those 2 knobs on the KM554 also. The right one being the kill switch but the left one on mine has been disengaged...it pulls nothing. Upon delivery, the dealer could not tell me what it was for other than "maybe it's the old hood release" but the hood release is up front.
So I'll have to look at mine this weekend to see if it IS the compression relief knob and if it should be attached somewhere. Maybe Chip can tell us on the KM554 what that left knob is...used to be?
That's right. I have those 2 knobs on the KM554 also. The right one being the kill switch but the left one on mine has been disengaged...it pulls nothing. Upon delivery, the dealer could not tell me what it was for other than "maybe it's the old hood release" but the hood release is up front.
So I'll have to look at mine this weekend to see if it IS the compression relief knob and if it should be attached somewhere. Maybe Chip can tell us on the KM554 what that left knob is...used to be?
Scozz
Silver Member
The compression relese is located on the rear of the engine up by the valve cover ... I'll try to take a picture and get it posted for you. I also modified the lever on mine to make it easier to pull with one hand, I'll get a picture of that also .... Scozz
3RRL
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Under what circumstances would you use the compression release valve?
During starting?
During operation?
While working on the motor?
During starting?
During operation?
While working on the motor?
3RRL
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Sorry to get off the subject guys. I will post some pics next week of my foodplot in the Sequoia foothills.
Scozz, could you PM me when you get a chance?
Thanks,
Scozz, could you PM me when you get a chance?
Thanks,
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