Fuel Oil Heating

[v8dave]

I'm at 2,000' in the California Sierra mtns above Sacramento. This location is just below the snow line. We get several dustings a year of snow but it rarely lasts on the ground more than a day. The home and shop is in a small North/South valley, so, we don't get the benefit of a full day's sun. November starts the cold weather in this area. Nights get cold enough to freeze unprotected water pipes several times a month (December through March). Winter is characterized by windy storms and some storms have blown the shingles off my neighbor's roof.

I have just finished the construction of my 1,500 sq ft shop. I have insulated sectional doors, insulated the walls with R-19 and the ceiling with R-38. The windows are dual pane low-e.

I've looked into several approaches to heating this shop. I've zeroed in on a fuel oil heater as the lowest operational cost for an unattended heater. Wood or pellet stoves are out because I have to have a system that can run for a while unattended. We heat the house with Propane and it gets expensive.

I believe I've settled on a Toyo Laser 73 oil fired stove. I plan on keeping the shop at a general temperature of between 55 and 60 degrees (Farenheit). This unit with it's over capacity will bring the shop up fairly quickly to 75 or so.

Heating with oil stoves is not the norm in California. So, I don't have many folks to talk to about this. Of course the local oil company and heating company are big proponents.

Anybody have any experience with a Toyo Laser 73 stove? Or similar models or types?
Any gotchas I should be aware of? Recommendations?

And the really big question: here in Calif we have the usual nut ball rules about most everything, including in this case a law about low sulphur diesel fuel. The heating company selling the Toyo stove says this model can burn our California spec diesel fuel because it's as clean as #1 fuel oil-- Chevron fuel specs (the local fuel oil company is a Chevron dealer). Should I do it? Diesel fuel for heat makes it nice to have a common fuel tank for the tractor and diesel standby generator.

 

[graybeard451]

I have been in the oil fired home heating trade for 30 years here in the NE. In the Rhode Island this kind of heating unit is not very popular, the Kerosuns (sp) of the 1980's that were vented into the living space soured most to this kind of heater. The manufacter clearly states #1 or K-1 only, is the dealer going to honor the warr. It was hard to see in the PDF, is the heating unit exhaust vented to the outside? If so you should be OK. Make sure they install a good filter before the unit, inside. You will have to check you local codes on the tank location, but I'm sure it can go outside if it's on a cement pad, but you want the filter inside so if there is any water it will not freeze. Hope this is helpful.

 

[Deerlope]

I have seen one similar to the Laser and it is call a Monitor here in in East. I have installed a few of them also. They are very efficent and safe but the ones that I have worked with only use kerosene or LP gas.

 

[Varmintmist]

1500 feet is a pretty good sized area to heat with a stand alone, IMHO. There are a lot of houses here that have less square footage and more furnace than what you are looking at.

If you have wood, you might want to think www.centralboiler.com . You can plumb to the shop AND house, zone the shop to keep the heat down, and get it in dual fuel wood/oil to get the fuel tank. And burn #2 home heating oil which is the same thing as off road deisel.

 

[brad_oatley]

Oil is the least desirable of the realistic fuel choices.
-messy-smelly-dirty-high maintenance. You WILL regret it.
The most desirable but likely unrealistic is solar.
Your use scenario's best choice is a 30,000btuh, 95% efficient condensing LP gas furnace. Any HVAC wholesaler that will sell direct to the end user will have 'em. About $650.
In a workshop environment, unducted, a contractor should charge about $2,000 to furnish and install one gas piped, wired, and best of all, thermostat controlled, with no maintenance.

 

[v8dave]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( . . . In the Rhode Island this kind of heating unit is not very popular, the Kerosuns (sp) of the 1980's that were vented into the living space soured most to this kind of heater. The manufacter clearly states #1 or K-1 only, is the dealer going to honor the warr. It was hard to see in the PDF, is the heating unit exhaust vented to the outside? If so you should be OK. Make sure they install a good filter before the unit, inside. You will have to check you local codes on the tank location, but I'm sure it can go outside if it's on a cement pad, but you want the filter inside so if there is any water it will not freeze. Hope this is helpful. )</font>

The unit is vented to the outside, and it uses outside air for combustion. The tank will be outside on a concrete slab in accordance with local codes.

The dealer will honor the warranty with the locally supplied diesel. He said this particular model was the only one that would handle diesel. This brand of heaters used to advertize a unit that could burn diesel. They've stopped listing diesel and #2 heating oil on any of their units (because they sooted up, according to the dealer). The dealer said the California spec diesel didn't soot up the units and this unit handled the heavier viscosity diesel.

The filter tip is a good idea, I'll be sure one is included inside.

Thanks

 

[v8dave]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( 1500 feet is a pretty good sized area to heat with a stand alone, IMHO. There are a lot of houses here that have less square footage and more furnace than what you are looking at.

If you have wood, you might want to think www.centralboiler.com . You can plumb to the shop AND house, zone the shop to keep the heat down, and get it in dual fuel wood/oil to get the fuel tank. And burn #2 home heating oil which is the same thing as off road deisel. )</font>

I was concerned about a single unit in the big space too. So, I build a shop inside the shop. That is I have a 12' x 20' inside shop, also with insulated walls. This smaller area is the workshop, the larger area is for primarily for storage of my old cars. I just want to keep the larger area at a moderate temperature. Now, I have to admit I did this primarily for air conditioning in the summer. I have a double door opening to this smaller area and both the heating and A/C are in the smaller area. My plan is to prop both doors open and allow the heat to bleed out to the larger shop in the winter.

There will be times I'm working on a car in the larger area and I've set aside the area in front of the small shop double doors for a lift. I figure I can put a fan to blow heat or cool as necessary to that area (out of the small shop).

We don't get below 0 in this area (in fact, rarely below 20). We do have periods of extended temps in the 30s and 40s. The biggest heat loss is from the modest winds.

One of the other odd, but nice, things about California is when storms come in off the Pacific ocean, the temp usually rises because they have all that 58 degree ocean moisture. The rare snow storms (in the coastal temperate areas) you hear about are usually arctic storms that come down inland from Alaska and Canada. So, the storms are usually moderate temps but windy.

We don't have a readily available large wood supply and that would be a problem anyway as it wouldn't work for an unattended heating system. I'm a consultant and my job sometimes requires me to be in other parts of the US for extended times. Mostly the New England area, but I've spent some time at an electric utility in Grand Forks, ND, where the wind never, ever, stops.

 

[v8dave]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Oil is the least desirable of the realistic fuel choices.
-messy-smelly-dirty-high maintenance. You WILL regret it.
The most desirable but likely unrealistic is solar.
Your use scenario's best choice is a 30,000btuh, 95% efficient condensing LP gas furnace. Any HVAC wholesaler that will sell direct to the end user will have 'em. About $650.
In a workshop environment, unducted, a contractor should charge about $2,000 to furnish and install one gas piped, wired, and best of all, thermostat controlled, with no maintenance. )</font>

Since we don't have Natural Gas at this location we do have to use LP, propane in our case, for heating. I can't justify the high cost of propane for what amounts to a hobby shop.

This Toyo unit is thermostat controlled. You may be correct about regetting the decision. But, this is a shop with a tractor and old cars in it. The real alternate for inexpensive heat in Calif is a pellet stove. But that has it's whole set of problems too.

But, you've caused me to think about the explosion hazzard of an open flame at floor level. I'll have to elevate any "floor" heater. Maybe a ceiling infrared heater? I'll have to rethink at least some part of this.

 

[beenthere]

From all that you've said and from what I can gather your situation is, if it was me, I would not go with oil. From the investment in your setup so far, I don't see how the cost of propane is going to be a limiting factor. It seems more like you are intrigued with doing it the 'non-conventional' way (propane). That's just an observation here. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If open flame is of any concern, your thought of radiant heat sounds like the better option.

But it is your money, to spend or to save, so let us know how it all works out in the end. Having had oil heat for 25 years, and switching to propane, I never, never have had a moment of looking back and regretting the change. Having also had oil space heater in a cabin used for hunting, I was sick of the smell that permeatted the clothes and sleeping bag when returning home. Not pleasant at all. Your restored cars will have an odor all their own when you take them out for parades, I would suspect.

Only trying to add to your information before you make the big decision. Really not trying to put you down in any way. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Junkman]

Modern oil furnaces are as clean as any other fuel. It seems that the Natural Gas consortium have done a good job brain washing people into believing that oil is dirty. I also had propane at one home and didn't find it any cleaner or dirtier than oil. The flame in in the unit and the unit is connected to the chimney. Please tell me how oil can be any dirtier than any of the other fuels. We have oil heat and hot water in two separate units and neither has been a problem. I have antique car parts stored in the cellar and with the exception of the dust that they arrived with, they are as clean today as they were when I put them down there 10-20 years ago. We have no fuel oil odors in the home either. The only way that you would have an odor of fuel oil is if you spilled it somehow. The nicest thing about oil, is that if you ever do have a leak, the worse case scenario is that you will have an expensive clean up. The worse case scenario for both natural and propane gas, is that your home blows up if you have a leak. What is even worse, is that you might be in it when this happens. Every winter, the local news has reports of homes where carbon monoxide poisoning has occurred. I don't remember one incident where this has happened in a home heated with oil. The reason is simple.. People that have oil heat maintain their heating appliance properly. The people that have gas feel that there is no maintenance necessary. You can't match oil.