Fuel treated with 911 instead of conditioner

[Sean2202]

So today before the Thanksgiving break a task that was assigned to some workers on staff was to treat the diesel tractors (Kioti) chipper (4B Cummins) Toro mowers (Kubota) and J-D (Yanmar) with diesel fuel conditioner for the winter. Also assigned was to treat the fuel tank which was just filled for winter. When I took out the trash at the end of the day I found a empty 1 gallon bottle of diesel 911 In the trash in which they used to treat everything instead of the fuel conditioner. The fuel Conditioner that was to be used was on the shelf in plain site next to the 911.

So my question is should I be concerned? I am not sure how much product was used for the treatment of everything. 3 tractors, 1 chipper, 12 Toro mowers and two J-D mowers in all were treated.

Everyone makes mistakes but I am very disappointed how people can be so careless, especially ones that have experience.

Any input is welcome
Sean

 

[ovrszd]

Be interesting to hear what the experts say. 911 is a great product. But it's pretty extreme.

 

[LouNY]

I would say to contact Power Serve and see what their response is.
I know what I would be saying to the individuals involved after asking if they bothered to read the dose rates and usage.

Are any of the dosed engines common rail or are they mechanical injection.

 

[BRMyers]

From the website:

Diesel 911 does not prevent fuel gelling – use Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost (in the white bottle) as a preventive measure to keep fuel from gelling. Diesel 911 and Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost are compatible in diesel fuel and may be used at the same time.

 

[MichiganIron]

From the website:

Diesel 911 does not prevent fuel gelling use Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost (in the white bottle) as a preventive measure to keep fuel from gelling. Diesel 911 and Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost are compatible in diesel fuel and may be used at the same time.

Diesel 911 should only be used as an Emergency (911) to dissolve gelled fuel at cold temperatures. Once the "gell" is dissolved and the fuel system is clear, the treated fuel should be removed. 911 contains enough alcohol to to dissolve the gelling, but the alcohol is really tough on injection pumps. It cleans the lubricity off the pump internals and can cause some serious high pressure pump damage.

We always recommend customers call us before using 911 so we can discuss how it should be used.

Just our opinion, hope it helps

 

[ovrszd]

Diesel 911 should only be used as an Emergency (911) to dissolve gelled fuel at cold temperatures. Once the "gell" is dissolved and the fuel system is clear, the treated fuel should be removed. 911 contains enough alcohol to to dissolve the gelling, but the alcohol is really tough on injector pumps. It cleans the lubricity off the pump internals and can cause some serious high pressure pump damage.

We always recommend customers call us before using 911 so we can discuss how it should be used.

Just our opinion, hope it helps

Good stuff. Thanks for posting!!!

 

[Sean2202]

Thanks for the replies so far. The 911 was just for that. Emergencies. All of these Diesel engines are pre tier 4 with the newest being a 2012. All are mechanical injection with hours ranging from 2500 to 8k.

Good point on contacting power serve. I was unaware that fuel treated with 911 should be removed. Thanks for sharing that. What to do with it after it is removed?

What concerns me is my fuel tank for my equipment was treated as well. Along with these individuals are the ones that mix the chemicals to be applied on the Golf course! A serious talk is in order!

Happy Thanksgiving all!

 

[ovrszd]

In my world, 911 is used to get a vehicle running that's gelled. The 911 treated fuel gets burned very soon. In your case sounds like it would be a huge task to drain all of that equipment.

Maybe Michigan Iron can comment on adding a lubricant and burning the fuel thru the engines next Spring?

 

[dodge man]

Probably just use the fuel and burn it up. Might be a good idea to try and blend it with regular diesel to dilute it some.

 

[RickB]

In my world, 911 is used to get a vehicle running that's gelled. The 911 treated fuel gets burned very soon. In your case sounds like it would be a huge task to drain all of that equipment.

Maybe Michigan Iron can comment on adding a lubricant and burning the fuel thru the engines next Spring?

It's only speculation but perhaps the alcohol will volatize out of the storage tank over time?
Contacting the manufacturer is a good plan.

 

[groundcover]

Or attract moisture ? If you have any large oil fired heating systems maybe burn it there. Sometimes it's just easier to do it yourself !

 

[LouNY]

I'm just thinking here now, if a vehicle is gelling up we add 911 to the fuel tank, pull the filters and pour it in the filters,
if I don't have spare filters I will fill it slosh it around and dump it out a couple of times. But we are counting on it to actually sink down in the tank and help clear the lines to the filter and from the filter and through the pump. I know of no one that dumps the fuel. Quite often it will get a very heavy dose of the white bottle in the tank with the 911.
Many decades ago before we had ever heard of Power Serve if you got gelled up a good slug of gasoline could be added tpo the tank and the filters washed in gasoline and diesel and gas filled the filter and start trying to get it started.

From Power Serves website; the directions to use 911 and to add anti-gell along with the 911;

80-OUNCE (PART NO. 8080)

TO DE-ICE FROZEN FUEL-FILTERS: If fuel is liquid in fuel tanks but engine won’t start: Remove fuel-filters and fill with 50% Diesel 911 and 50% diesel fuel. Reinstall fuel-filters. Start engine. Add Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost as directed to prevent fuel gelling.

TO RELIQUEFY GELLED FUEL: Add entire contents (80 ounces) to each 100 gallons of fuel in the tanks. Remove fuel-filters and fill with 50% Diesel 911 and 50% diesel fuel. Reinstall fuel-filters. Start engine. Let engine idle to warm up fuel system. Add Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost as directed to prevent fuel gelling.

TO REMOVE WATER AND PREVENT FUEL-FILTER ICING: Add entire contents (80 ounces) to 250 gallons of diesel fuel. For biodiesel blends, add entire contents (80 ounces) to 125 gallons of diesel fuel.

 

[ovrszd]

It's only speculation but perhaps the alcohol will volatize out of the storage tank over time?
Contacting the manufacturer is a good plan.

Good thought Rick.

 

[number two]

Maybe 13 years ago,when I was driving a fuel tanker,the leasing/rental outfit we got the tractor from had a drum of 911 sitting there.
I had to ask,why so much?
Well,at the start of fuel treatment season,they added 1/2 of the barrel to the next 12,000 gallon load of diesel fuel.
The rest of the barrel was added to the next load.
Apparently they didn't want any rental customers to have problems.
All I could think was WOW!

 

[DEWFPO]

I would find out what dosing they used. You can then decide if it's enough to worry about or leave it be and add the proper amount of the proper additive.

DEWFPO

 

[ovrszd]

They used the "glug, glug" dosing method.

 

[DEWFPO]

They used the "glug, glug" dosing method.

Do you know if they used the same number of 'glugs' per tank regardless of tank size or if they actually made an effort to compensate for tank size?

If they used a similar amount per unit that averages to less than 1 cup (7.1 ounces) per unit. (128 ounces divided by 18 pieces of equipment) I don't feel that's anything to worry about.

I would recommend proper dosing with the correct additive(s) and call it a day. And maybe holding an educational class behind the woodshed.

DEWFPO

 

[ovrszd]

My consensus is if they didn't bother to ensure they were using the right additive, they also didn't bother to check dosage rate.......

 

[Sean2202]

Well my first question this morning was "How full was this 80fl oz jug?"

"It was about 3/4 full when we started"

ME "How much did you use for each piece?"

"A splash or so" (sounds more like the glug glug method)

ME "How much did you put in the storage tank" (600 gallons about 3/4 full)

"There was about 1/4 left that went into the tank"

ME "This is NOT fuel conditioner it is for winter emergency fuel treatment if the vehicle will not start. We would more than likely only need it if the tractor will not start and there is a lot of snow to clear"

I still may call powerserve to pick their brain but I think I may take my chances with that dose. It does say on the bottle as pointed out above:

"TO REMOVE WATER AND PREVENT FUEL-FILTER ICING: Add entire contents (80 ounces) to 250 gallons of diesel fuel. For biodiesel blends, add entire contents (80 ounces) to 125 gallons of diesel fuel.

 

[RalphVa]

So today before the Thanksgiving break a task that was assigned to some workers on staff was to treat the diesel tractors (Kioti) chipper (4B Cummins) Toro mowers (Kubota) and J-D (Yanmar) with diesel fuel conditioner for the winter. Also assigned was to treat the fuel tank which was just filled for winter. When I took out the trash at the end of the day I found a empty 1 gallon bottle of diesel 911 In the trash in which they used to treat everything instead of the fuel conditioner. The fuel Conditioner that was to be used was on the shelf in plain site next to the 911.

So my question is should I be concerned? I am not sure how much product was used for the treatment of everything. 3 tractors, 1 chipper, 12 Toro mowers and two J-D mowers in all were treated.

Everyone makes mistakes but I am very disappointed how people can be so careless, especially ones that have experience.

Any input is welcome
Sean

Here's what the MSDS says for PS 911:

C3-C5 Mixed Hydroxy-Containing Aliphatic Hydrocarbons Petroleum Distillates Aromatic Hydrocarbons

Long as they followed the label in how much they used. Should be okay. Doesn't appear to have alcohol, which could grab water and come out of solution and provide little globs of alcoholic water to hit the injectors.

Ralph