Full synthetic

[Soundguy]

Soundguy I'm amazed your Murray/MTD lasted that long; can only be because you gave it good maintenance.
Your Murray was likely designed for the lowest price point. What you are saying is really that inexpensive mowers today are getting better.
Good to hear. You have a Powerbuilt motor in your Murray, allegedly a tough customer. Probably not OHC and built before emission controls.
Made to run and run...might be good to take the head off and clean the valves.
I guess their main bearings are pretty good. And also because Florida is flat and you aren't doing a lot of operating
on slopes and starving the engine for oil at times. I mention this having moved to coastal NC three years ago where everything is flat as a pool table here, except for the ever present ditches.

good luck with Chinese mower spindles and belt pulleys. I bet there are millions of them seized up in our country's dumps. I'm quite sure China makes high quality spindles too. It's all in the spec and the sway of the bean counters.

Now there's an interesting scenario. On slopes where the pickup is sucking air, or the splash system is splashing in the wrong places, would having synthetic oil in the engine provide better protection than conventional? Does stuff like Slick 50 really help in those situations?
Or does plain oil stock with some fancy additives stick around long enough that this is all moot and irrelevant?
There's a lot of koolaid being sold here and I admit drinking a bit of it...
I always thought synthetic was better at everything. Is it?

Yes, I do think periodic maintenance DID help that 17yr old murray to survive. And yes, it was actually the CHEAPEST rider mower I could find, anywhere, got it at a walmart right before winter that year, so got another 50$ off of it. I might have paid ? 499$ for that thing? And yup.. It did not hav ethe emissions muffler, etc. Mower still starts and runs... deck is shot.. and one gear int he trans feels 'funny' but it drove fine right till I parked it. rear tires are bad, fronts still up. I plan on doing one of 2 things... rip the engine out and keep it for a project, or rip the deck out and tube the rears if they aren't gone completely and use it as a yard tender. Yup, flat florida. one a very small swal I had to cross to do the roadside and that was traversed in an instant. that old girl was a splash lube job.

The new mtd cloe has an oil filter, and the emissions muffler. and darn them cheap soft non rebuildable spindles. no replaceable bearings... soft too. whatever air gun they seated the washer headed blade nuts on with deformed the threads. when I puleld them off they pulled most of the threads with them, staying in the nut. oddly, the nut is hard and the spindles soft. a file test drug across the face of the spindle bites easilly.. but rides on the nut.. they should hav eknown that was going to be an issue. I rethreaded them as best I could, used new nuts obviously, different size, etc.. have had them off one time since then, and the threads were ok then. does make me mad though...

On the new mower I am running store brand syn oil.. it's cheap for the quantity it takes, and as you mention.. it MIGHT offer better protecting on that second it rides a slope.

Is it better? Maybee at heat stability. I'm no petro engineer.

I do know one thing. the old murray would darken oil fast, even new.. it had no oil filter and only a single stage air filter.

this new mtd, oil comes out like it went in.. like amber.

it has a 2 stage air filter, an oil filter and I'm running syn oil. are one of thos ehelping more than the other? dunno.... i'm betting they all help some.

I'm just hoping to get at least half as much life out of this mtd clone as I did the murray. on the old murray, if it's deck hadn't have just finally died for the 3rd time, I'd have foamed the tires and kept running her. i did spindle bearings on that deck, a rethread once, and some welding to replace deck metal simply eroded away by sandy florida a COUPLE times.

Since my mtd clone is still newish. I was thinking about taking some proactive steps to making it last.

when i had her up on the hoiust to do blades the beginning of the year, i noticed factory paint is just now wearing thru on the underside of the deck.

i have half a mind to buy a can of that truck underframe rubber coating and spray the heck out of the deck. that ruberized paint may deflect sand better.

The blades just don't last unfortunately. in sandy sunny florida, if you buy the super high dollar blades, at the end of 2 years they look like weed eater twine. I have been going with a cheaper 10$ each blade, and just replacing them each year vs a 29$ set that is an inch wide by the time you replace it.

i did swap to non mulching blades. the straights last a hair longer.. blades seem softer these days., I keep a 5g bucket of JUST mower blades. I use them to make things. the old blades were thicker and and harder or stronger maybee the better word..metal it seems. some of these new blades.. you can bend by hand. what's with that? almost looks like it would be cheaper to just buy 1/8" x 2" flat stock 4' section and cut 2 blades out of it with a chop saw, bore the center hole at the hub, then grind a 3" 35-45 degree edge on and go.

or heck.. weld a bead of hard face on the iron, then grind a blade on it... seems liek the metal would be no LESS strong, abut yet it would be cheaper by about 25%, and I'd still have 9.75" of flat stock to play with.

Hmm.. that might be an idea. next time I pull the blades to sharpen, weld a hard face down the line and regrind....

 

[aczlan]

r heck.. weld a bead of hard face on the iron, then grind a blade on it... seems liek the metal would be no LESS strong, abut yet it would be cheaper by about 25%, and I'd still have 9.75" of flat stock to play with.
Hmm.. that might be an idea. next time I pull the blades to sharpen, weld a hard face down the line and regrind....

Might need to add hardfacing to the back "uplift" part of the blade as well, I have seen those get sandblasted away.

Aaron Z

 

[Soundguy]

Exactly. The mulching blades rest much more as well also due to their shape


I may just try tho on next change.

Maybee a test. Hardface and grind one blade, mark it, and not the other, see how they compare at next season.

 

[vsteel]

I don't run synthetic in lawn mowers. For a golf course, it makes sense. But, for most homeowners, I don't think it makes sense.

I bet you have never had a motorcycle that takes an odd amount of oil so you use the left over bits of synthetic in the mower.

 

[ray66v]

I bet you have never had a motorcycle that takes an odd amount of oil so you use the left over bits of synthetic in the mower.

Thankfully, I do not own a motorcycle.

Both of the mowers I currently have, don't use a drop of engine oil, between changes.

If one of them did, I would not have a problem doing that.

 

[vsteel]

Thankfully, I do not own a motorcycle.

Both of the mowers I currently have, don't use a drop of engine oil, between changes.

If one of them did, I would not have a problem doing that.

Mine never used oil, I change the oil with the left over bits since they also always took less than a quart. The mowers are at the bottom of the food chain so they get the left overs. Once I break the seal if I don't put it all in the machine, I don't use it for the motors I care about.

Though I do wonder about the synthetic oil helping. I have an old push mower that is 17 years old that I have used every year and for the first couple before I had a rider for the larger areas, it was mowing 2 acres. Just a normal B&S motor that still runs like the day I bought it. I wish I had an hour meter on it, I know it is up there.

 

[ray66v]

Mine never used oil, I change the oil with the left over bits since they also always took less than a quart. The mowers are at the bottom of the food chain so they get the left overs. Once I break the seal if I don't put it all in the machine, I don't use it for the motors I care about.

Though I do wonder about the synthetic oil helping. I have an old push mower that is 17 years old that I have used every year and for the first couple before I had a rider for the larger areas, it was mowing 2 acres. Just a normal B&S motor that still runs like the day I bought it. I wish I had an hour meter on it, I know it is up there.

What is it you wonder about the synthetic oil helping?

There is no longer any substantial difference in lubricity, between synthetic oil, and regular mineral oil, at normal temperatures.

There was, a long time ago, which causes a lot of misconception today.

Synthetic oil could help, if you mow in sub zero weather, or when it's like, over 120F.

Why is it, you banish the oil to the junk motors, just because you "broke the seal"?

I have owned a 1997 Villager, since new. It has 242,000 miles on it. It runs perfectly, and never uses any oil. It does not know what synthetic oil is. It's never had anything, but 5k mile oil changes, with regular Penzoil 10w-30. And, with the exception of the factory filter, it's never had anything but a Fram oil filter, which everyone rants about how bad they are! :confused3:

 

[Soundguy]

I tell ya, those old bs run! And run!

 

[vsteel]

What is it you wonder about the synthetic oil helping?

Synthetic oil could help, if you mow in sub zero weather, or when it's like, over 120F.

Why is it, you banish the oil to the junk motors, just because you "broke the seal"?

Even though I do put the lid back on I just feel better using fresh oil in the motors I really care about and the mower uses up any odds and ends I have. Almost all of my engines take whole quarts so not many have left overs. Just a "thing" I have. Might be irrational but makes me feel better.

I am thinking it is good for the mower because it is an air cooled motor so they are running a lot hotter than a liquid cooled motor. I don't mow at 120 but I am sometimes running the push mower at 90.

I run Shell Rotella T6 in everything I have except one engine with VVT which I need to use the correct viscosity. I used to run all sorts of different motor oils and I got tired of having so many so I simplified. I just chose the Shell because it was a cheaper synthetic and it had a lot higher levels of phosphorus and zinc for my flat tappet motors and is nice for starting in those sub-zero days. I know that the formulation has changed over the years with the new grades but it still gives me the best results. (My test setup is my motorcycle, the sooner the shifting gets notchy the sooner the oil has broken down. When I try an oil I keep track of the mileage to see how long I can get out of it.) I know it is pure anecdotal but so far it is working for me. My motorcycle does require at least a semi-synthetic or better and I do ride in sub freezing temperatures.

The highest mileage vehicle I have is my 1991 GMC Sonoma at 199K. I bought it new and for the first 100K all it has was 10-30 in the winter and straight 30 in the summer which came out of the steel drums that we bought for the tractors. Various manufactures supplied the drums and I did 3K oil changes.

I do agree a lot of things have changed, the oil is so much better than it used to be and the machining in the motors is a lot better than it used to be. When I was pouring SD grade oil into my 70 SS it would be jet black in 500 miles. One benefit though is the old motors made checking the dipsticks really easy with that really black oil, the new motors keep the oil nice and clean for so much longer it can be hard to see.

 

[Soundguy]

High octane fuel may help with that engine too. Double edged sword though