Full synthetic

[man114]

If you're looking for real world experience I have a Troy Bilt Horse XP I bought 2 years ago at Lowes on clearance with a Kohler SV620 engine. I've seen this engine have issues wears the cylinder in almost an egg shape pattern. This tractor was purchased primarily so my son could make money mowing neighbors yards.

I ran the engine about 5 hours and immediately switched to Mobil 1 Synthetic (I got a bunch of this on clearance at Autozone a few years ago) with a ZDDP additive designed for older cars (I also have loads of this stuff) and put on a larger oil filter for more oil capacity. It's been run for many many hours, not always in the easiest duty and it runs very well. So I wouldn't say this has caused any issue. I change the oil somewhat earlier than required.

Is it unnecessary? Probably but I don't see using synthetic early causing problems.

 

[Copperhead]

Neither have I in any application.

 

[mkr7734]

I have run Mobil 1 in everything gas powered since my new 1978 LUV truck. And that is a lot of things. The JD tractor now has over 500hr on it and is 9 years old, I will be switching to full synthetic next change. Like Drew said, it is just easier to buy one oil and use it in everything.

 

[MHarryE]

Guys, Well after 36 years at Cat in Aurora Il In assembly, test, and then engine plant parts logistics. I can only speak for what I know. All Cat engines big and small are run on a test stand after assembly. These stands have a filtering system and the engine is tested and set for all sorts of parameters for the application it will be used in. Then an oil sample is taken recorded and the results are sent with the engine. Fluids are then drained for shipment new filters are installed and If it does not pass the oil sample it will be run flushed and filled, then run again. They seldom fail the a oil sample test, At that point they go to paint then to shipping to the assembly plant where the engines will be married to the machine it will be used in. Once installed in a machine they are again filled with fluids and again are put on a test stand where all system specs are set. The engine machining parts processes are so rigorous that there should be no chips or shavings. Parts are machined, blown out,washed, blown out again then inspected, Many times, most, today this is all done by machine and they hold to an extreme close tolerance. So the machine not only machines the part it also cleans it. Then the parts are packaged and sent to the engine assembly line. While there is always a chance something may get through it is very very rare. On machines with very complex hydraulic systems like Hydraulic excavators it is even more important to be clean so they run them in flush and fill station for upwards of 30 minutes to clean the machine's hydraulic systems and then new filters are installed. Then an oil sample is taken and if it does not pass it is run through the process till tho oil is shown clean. I would think today all brands hold to the same kind if rigorous processes and inspections. If they are not I would look for another brand to spend my money on. I am sure most hold to the same standards. I would not be worrying to much about chips in a new engine these days. Now back in 1973 when I started, well lets just say it was a lot looser back then. As they have automated more and removed human hands from the processes things got better. Jobs got worse but quality is better today than then. Today's machines come with ports so oil samples can be taken. If you have a question on some oil in the machine, get it tested. They can tell you almost anything you would want to know about the health of your machine by these samples. We have come a long way from the old days. :thumbsup: Now I have been retired since 1-30-2009 but would think things are only better. I hope this has been helpful information.

mkr7734 and I worked for the same company, retired on the same date, but worked at different plants, but our plant was similar. Everything assembled clean, run tested, fluids checked must meet a certain contamination level before leaving the factory, and recleaned (expensive so learn to do it right the first time) until fluids meet a very strict cleanliness level. If the dealer receives a machine that foes not meet them s spec, they get to clean it at Ma Cat's expense so factories pay strict attention - they get charged back and every employee at that plant feels it in their paycheck. But that is Caterpillar and my experience with Kubota and Deere is not up to that standard. I was shocked at the crud at the oil filters in my 4 Kubotas at first oil change. When I retired the newest product from Aurora's plant was at 4,000 hours to first hydraulic oil change, when the user uses oil sampling, and 2,000 hours if they didn't sample. I matched that on my project duct lines using the same basic hydraulics as Aurora but kept 2,000 and 1,000 on my lighter product due to lack of long change interval experience. Then I traded my older Kubota on a L5740 which specified a 400 hour change. I was amazed at the crud. My M135GX was much better - I sent have sent oil samples to our local Cat dealer for analysis and wear metals and contamination all fell within Cats guidelines when changed at 400 hours, but remember that is still 1/10th of what Cat recommends. Our Deere's will get their first sampling this year.

There is really no reason oil needs to be changed at the customer's expense to compensate for poor manufacturing quality but SCUT and CUT customers on this forum apparently are okay with it. Cat customers will not accept it, but we are talking about customers who have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in their equipment. Is that what it takes? Or is it that building a CUT to the equivalent quality standards will make it prohibitively expensive?

 

[Soundguy]

Cat customers will not accept it, but we are talking about customers who have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in their equipment. Is that what it takes? Or is it that building a CUT to the equivalent quality standards will make it prohibitively expensive?

If I buy a 500K machine, I expect it to be built better than a 15K machine.

And I don't want to pay 16K for a 15K machine just because it may need an early 100$ oil change.

 

[WilliamBos]

If I buy a 500K machine, I expect it to be built better than a 15K machine.

And I don't want to pay 16K for a 15K machine just because it may need an early 100$ oil change.

Not just the machine, the excellent service. A friend of mine told me the only time he never had to check and fix/tighten things after a repair was when it was done at the Cat dealer. He checked their work, never had an issue.

 

[Soundguy]

Not just the machine, the excellent service. A friend of mine told me the only time he never had to check and fix/tighten things after a repair was when it was done at the Cat dealer. He checked their work, never had an issue.

I've been with a general contractor since the late 80's. There isn't anything magical about cat or deere except the $$ they charge.

I've had machinery taken in for repair and sent back out with HUGE glaring problems

The yellow paint sure is expensive though.

 

[daugen]

keep taking zeros off please. What do we expect on a 150 dollar entry level gas engine?
And are inexpensive engines built in such a way we should be changing the oil differently, if only at the start? I'd sure expect an inexpensive Briggs 5hp motor to "break in" a lot faster than I would a new BMW or Porsche engine with those exotic cylinder and/or piston coatings.

As for my Kubota diesel engine, it is really clear Kubota is quite happy with high quality conventional oil.
Both the original and my current Kubota dealers did not/do not stock synthetic 15/40 for the tractors

 

[Soundguy]

Here's a couple things to ruminate on. I have an ok murray mower, its 19 or 20 now, I replaced it 2 ys ago with a mtd clone.

The muresy has a brigs ? 12.5hp. It was one of them cast iron sleeve advertised ones, rebuildable, etc.. Mine now has 2 bad rear tires, and the deck is pretty much shot. I've put bearings in the spindles before, rethreaded stripped spindle threads, its been thru a couple drive belts and 3-4 deck belts. Here in hot sandy Florida, you can mow 10 months a year.. Or more.. And that's weekly.

So you'd think my engine was shot right? Naa.. Starts and runs good..

The local small eng shop I get blades and belts from says he hardly ever sells engine kits.. Almost never. Carbs.. Yeah...

Compair that to air compressors. A 60g 5 hp, 2 piston Ch air compressor at work died. The piston s and crank have to be replaced together, they were form molded to fit together.. repair by replacement.. Go figure.

Now.. If my mtd clone will make it even 10 ys ill be impressed. Just outside of warranty I did my first blade change. Both spindles list threads due to being on too tight from the factors. So at 13 months old, I already had to grind and tap the threads the next nearest undersize I could go and get full thread root. Wasn't happy.. I have had them off this 2nd year and was very careful inspecting them. If the threads ever start to go, I can't undersize them again safely, and will have to go for spindles. I've seen a cheap will fit set that requires me to drill mounting holes, for 49$ each. Correct bolt on ones will run me 70$ or more each. They dont make em like they used to.. Bushings for bearings in some models too..

 

[daugen]

Soundguy I'm amazed your Murray/MTD lasted that long; can only be because you gave it good maintenance.
Your Murray was likely designed for the lowest price point. What you are saying is really that inexpensive mowers today are getting better.
Good to hear. You have a Powerbuilt motor in your Murray, allegedly a tough customer. Probably not OHC and built before emission controls.
Made to run and run...might be good to take the head off and clean the valves.
I guess their main bearings are pretty good. And also because Florida is flat and you aren't doing a lot of operating
on slopes and starving the engine for oil at times. I mention this having moved to coastal NC three years ago where everything is flat as a pool table here, except for the ever present ditches.

good luck with Chinese mower spindles and belt pulleys. I bet there are millions of them seized up in our country's dumps. I'm quite sure China makes high quality spindles too. It's all in the spec and the sway of the bean counters.

Now there's an interesting scenario. On slopes where the pickup is sucking air, or the splash system is splashing in the wrong places, would having synthetic oil in the engine provide better protection than conventional? Does stuff like Slick 50 really help in those situations?
Or does plain oil stock with some fancy additives stick around long enough that this is all moot and irrelevant?
There's a lot of koolaid being sold here and I admit drinking a bit of it...
I always thought synthetic was better at everything. Is it?